sure as long as humans are the ones doing the creating.

No one called it science. It's not Creationism vs. Evolution that's on the table--you're talking about the origin of life..."Intelligent Design/Creation vs. Big Bang Theory"

Here's what should be taught: There is more evidence for Intelligent Design than for the Big Bang Theory. How the heck did Big Bang become an actual theory??

And for both of these, there is no testable hypothesis to even get to the theory step, so this thread is a waste of space.

humans can not create, they can only manipulate. if we could create we would have no need for money or goods and services.

That would have to be qualified with "matter and energy".

Humans do create things like opinions.

aren't opinions learned?

I wouldn't say so. If something is learned, I call it information, not opinion.

Do be too sure about that.

According to physics things are popping into existence and out of existence all the time. This process can even be affected by human activity.

Possibly one day it may be controlled quite well.

Who knows?

It doesn't really matter anyway. Even if a supreme intelligence is required it sure isn't going to be found an ancient Mediterranean mythology of a blood-thristy God who solves all his problems via violent means.

If an intelligence is required for the recreation of hte universe, then we're probably it.

The funny thing about religious people is that they claim to believe in a spiritual soul.

Yet they reject the pantheistic picture.

That's silly.

The only real difference between Pantheism and the Biblical picture of God is that Pantheism says that we are the eternal spirit. We existed before we were born and we will continue to exist after we die.

The only thing that the Biblical pictures changes is to claim that it only works one way. That somehow we came into being at birth, but we'll continue to live on as spirit afterward.

Pantheism says we are the eternal spirit.

The Biblical picture says that we are being created by a blood-thirsty God who solves all his problems with violence and loses the vast majority of the souls he creates to some fallen angel that he's at war with.

It's like Greek Mythology only worse.

You have shown zero evidence for ID, The big bag we can test we see reminents of it.
There is no evidence of ID.
The big bang is a very sound theory.
ID is not a theory period.
ID does nothing but make people stupid.
It is a thought ender.

To whoever it was that called this thread a waste of space, thats not very nice. Seamonster "created" it, so your are insulting his intellegence by saying this. You should try to be nicer!

They are artifically firing protons, hun.. You still have to account for its source to keep this 'theory' viable.

It's soo funny how anti-Christians (excuse me for seeing the spades here) can support theories that lack sufficient evidence for their own benefit, yet turn around and and tell Christians they can't use the same amount of evidence to back up hypotheses, theories, whatever the heck you want to call them at this point.

Darwin is already a laughing stock in the higher end of the scientific community. I'm just waiting to see more names added to the list.

And the evidence for Intelligent Design is this: There is no other plausible way DNA could have been coded. You wouldn't blow off stonehenge and say it fell from the sky.. Those markings in corn fields? It's not evolution or the natural world in action, we believe someone intelligent came before we saw them and did these things. How can you not.. in your right minds.. say that about DNA and the complexity and specificity of life?

And I don't mean that in a mean way, but I sure as heck mean it in a, if you're really wanting to educate yourself on these topics, you need to search these answers out, way.

First of all. Again you have still not shown ANY evidence of ID. again ZERO.
There is none, we have evidence of the big bang, and you have ZERO evidence.
And that is why there are very few credible scientest that will suport it.
And no darwin is by far a laughing stock.
Maybe amungst your scientists like John Hagee and Robert Tilton.
But those are not scientists they are preachers and scam artists.
Evolution is as strong a theory as the sun revolving around the earth.
Now you may not buy that one either because thats just a theory also.
There is very strong evidence of evolution and none of ID so which do you think the thinking community excepts?
I have laid them both out in my evolution and creationism thred.
If anyone that thinks critically reads them both will understand why ID is the real laughing stock.

Personally, I think when talking about the universe, the use of the word "intelligent" to modify "design" is pretty ridiculous in the first place. If there is any "design" involved at all, it sure as hell is intelligent.

I see your point in saying this..

Happy Thanksgiving debate forum trolls~!

I don't know where to stand on this whole issue, but I WILL say this and I'm NOT even remotely kidding.......


I have personally known a good number of people who have me convinced that Neanderthal Man never completely died off - never became extinct. I know a disturbing number of people who exhibit - based on what we know of Neanderthal Man - both the physical and mental traits - and I'm related to some of these people. Maybe they interbred with Homo Sapiens in some cases, and the traits resurface once in a while, I don't know.


BTW, National Geographic reported this year that some Neanderthal bones were unexpectedly found recently, and were in good enough condition to be DNA tested, and while remarkably similar to Homo Sapiens, there were differences.

Sooooo your evidence for ID is crop circles (which have been shown to be fakes)and stonehenge?
I agree that the DNA structure is extremly complex, but that still is not real evidence of ID.

Well, not sure how I feel about crop circles either.. buy pyramids and other old architecture-- the same as stonehenge + the complexity of DNA and the unfathomable assumption that it just grew to be so complex... It's not real evidence, but it's a lead. I just think that all good scientists remain unbiased until all the cards hit the table. And I don't discount some forms of evolution within a species, but I really can't go across species without more proof.

Now, my religious beliefs do play a part in that. It took man 1000 years with a telescope to agree with Job's writing that the stars and planets were suspended in space and not somehow connected. There are so many more passages like this and none, to my knowledge, to the contrary.

I'm sure you've heard the whole.. ok, if the Big Bang did occur, who created the gases? There's something about serving the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that has persisted throughout the centuries in such wealthy amounts of hearts that I'm taken aback at even that anomaly.

I honestly don't think we'll ever truly know what happened until we can a) travel back in time and watch it; or if Creationism is true; b) meet that Creator and ask him ourselves.

Just hey, Sea.. If you start to draw those final breaths and you've yet to find out yourself, consider the alternative. And that's said from the heart..

OK, think about this, go live like an ape in the woods for the rest of your life and try to figure out how to make yourself into something that you are not. Seems like a rather pointless thing to do doesn't it. Thats because it is. Much like trying to get someone to be willing to accept something they don't want to accept. We all have the choice to believe what we want. We could hold a weapon to someones head and order them to say that evolution OR creationism is correct. They will still have the choice of remaining silent and allowing us to use the weapon if we choose. It could be that the structure of or brain the enables us to make a reasonable evaluation of a stuaition is the only thing that separates us from the other spcies on this planet. I know this may seem like a stupid yet involved subject to some of the people in the world. I will leave you with this thought. That was it.

From my Evolution and Creationism thred:

God could have created humans with completely different DNA sequences. For example, God could have effortlessly zapped humans into existence with a gene for hemoglobin that is only, say, 85% identical to that of chimpanzees. Why did God make ours exactly identical to the chimp’s? Worse, why did He not only make the human and chimpanzee base sequences for hemoglobin identical, but also make them different from that of most other animals? And, different in just the right manner to give the supposedly false illusion of a hierarchical system (groups within groups) of relationships between species, that He also tricked scientists into believing by falsely creating a vast number of other genes that overall also demonstrate the same nested groupings? For some unexplained reason, God knowingly chose to make our DNA – not just for hemoglobin, but for a whole slew of other genes too – so similar to chimps, and decreasingly similar to increasingly less-related species, that it convincingly gives the supposedly false illusion that we share a common ancestor with them? Why? That would be knowingly misleading: grossly misleading.


All of these things God would have done, intentionally, knowing the future. Why? It sure appears that He would have done so specifically to mislead future scientists into believing “the lie” of evolution. God set a complex, interdependent trap, so that He could then condemn to eternal damnation and unending torment anyone who falls prey to His deceit?



The god of the bible promotes slavery and murder.
Insted of teaching his children when they went astray HE KILLED THEM ALL.
If the god of the bible is real then he is a monster that all other monsters pale in comparision.
I for one am glad not to serve such a tyranical fiend.

Imagine if humans were completely different from every animal. Imagine if our DNA was completely different from every animal on the planet.

Wouldn't that destroy the Theory of Evolution?

Wouldn't that cause many people to become believers?

I believe that the answer to both questions is yes, which is the problem. God doesn't want us to believe because of knowledge, but because of reason and faith. I believe that God was very careful to not leave absolute proof of his existence in the universe, because such proof would eliminate the need for faith.

So he tricked us, into thinking he does not exist.
It's a game for him.
children dieing and starving.
His game sucks.