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| Topic: Redistribution of Wealth... | |
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I think it would be nice if we could all agree that everyone should be doing what they can to help themselves, and only seeking out government help from others when they can't. Nobody should be allowed to abuse the system for their own lazy purposes. It would also be nice if those who have made it, or those who were fortunate enough to be born in wealth would be willing to pass either some of their blessings or wisdom to those who do not see better things financially in their future. And it shouldn't be based on the idea of an investment--ie. to get something in return from it. It should be based on being a decent human being and caring about your fellow man. That's all I'm saying. Besides, while there are some people who milk the government for money, I would say that most people would rather be making it on their own. The people that abuse the system are the minority. |
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Maybe this can make a little more sense to all of you that can't think past the scope of a childhood education.
Tina Tina, you make very valid arguments. But then you proceed to lessen those points by making snide little comments such as the one I am quoting. I understand that it can be frustrating at times to feel that you are the only one who " sees the light " so to speak. Resorting to insulting someone's intelligence, however, is not the most effective way of making your point. If people don't listen to those points, that is their own choice. Oh I'm reading them but they don't go with my life experience and the tone of this whole thread is if you are poor you must be either stupid or lazy.I am neither .I'm just a single parent struggling to get by and even I will drop a few coins in a less fortunate persons cup because thats called empathy and community.Sometimes people forget their roots and what it's like to struggle.sad. You DO know, though, that it IS possible for you to do better for you and your family. No one is saying that just because you are poor you are stupid. I am saying that there are so many resources out there for single parents to make a better life for themselves, and the argument before (WINX, I think said) that people that are older with children will never make any better of a life for themselves or their families other than minimum wage and that minimum wage should be increased. You can look back and see that conversation. You can also see in other threads where I have told my story, and argued that many people are perfectly happy with making a lower income. They are happy to spend more time with their families and would opt to not work so hard in their life. What I am saying is, that's fine, but I don't want them to whine and say that somehow because I HAVE worked hard to earn good money, I owe them by paying more than 1/3 of what I earn to them. Hope that clarifies. Tina I did not say that they will never make a better life for themselves!! I said that it was more difficult. You said exactly, Winx: "But..you were young when this happened. These people are older and have children. Minimum wage cannot support a family. It's even difficult for a single adult to live on that income." Throughout the entire conversation, you had stuck to this and how "difficult" it was to a point that it was implied as nearly impossible. And in another quote, an implication: Winx: "Not to mention the psychological issues they have from living like that all of their lives and having no hope or good role models." I am just arguing the point that it IS possible. And, if one jumps on the ball early enough in the year FASFA funds will be available for them. There are also State Need Grants for EVERYTHING from excess tuition fees, class fees, books, extra cost of living, DAYCARE, etc. AND on top of that comes a subsidised loan, and if all else fails, an un-subsidised loan. Tina Not if you work. That's when people fall through the cracks. Their income is just a tad too high to be eligible for grants. |
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Maybe this can make a little more sense to all of you that can't think past the scope of a childhood education.
Tina Tina, you make very valid arguments. But then you proceed to lessen those points by making snide little comments such as the one I am quoting. I understand that it can be frustrating at times to feel that you are the only one who " sees the light " so to speak. Resorting to insulting someone's intelligence, however, is not the most effective way of making your point. If people don't listen to those points, that is their own choice. Oh I'm reading them but they don't go with my life experience and the tone of this whole thread is if you are poor you must be either stupid or lazy.I am neither .I'm just a single parent struggling to get by and even I will drop a few coins in a less fortunate persons cup because thats called empathy and community.Sometimes people forget their roots and what it's like to struggle.sad. You DO know, though, that it IS possible for you to do better for you and your family. No one is saying that just because you are poor you are stupid. I am saying that there are so many resources out there for single parents to make a better life for themselves, and the argument before (WINX, I think said) that people that are older with children will never make any better of a life for themselves or their families other than minimum wage and that minimum wage should be increased. You can look back and see that conversation. You can also see in other threads where I have told my story, and argued that many people are perfectly happy with making a lower income. They are happy to spend more time with their families and would opt to not work so hard in their life. What I am saying is, that's fine, but I don't want them to whine and say that somehow because I HAVE worked hard to earn good money, I owe them by paying more than 1/3 of what I earn to them. Hope that clarifies. Tina I did not say that they will never make a better life for themselves!! I said that it was more difficult. You said exactly, Winx: "But..you were young when this happened. These people are older and have children. Minimum wage cannot support a family. It's even difficult for a single adult to live on that income." Throughout the entire conversation, you had stuck to this and how "difficult" it was to a point that it was implied as nearly impossible. And in another quote, an implication: Winx: "Not to mention the psychological issues they have from living like that all of their lives and having no hope or good role models." I am just arguing the point that it IS possible. And, if one jumps on the ball early enough in the year FASFA funds will be available for them. There are also State Need Grants for EVERYTHING from excess tuition fees, class fees, books, extra cost of living, DAYCARE, etc. AND on top of that comes a subsidised loan, and if all else fails, an un-subsidised loan. Tina Not if you work. That's when people fall through the cracks. Their income is just a tad too high to be eligible for grants. exactly.it differs from state to state. |
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I think it would be nice if we could all agree that everyone should be doing what they can to help themselves, and only seeking out government help from others when they can't. Nobody should be allowed to abuse the system for their own lazy purposes. It would also be nice if those who have made it, or those who were fortunate enough to be born in wealth would be willing to pass either some of their blessings or wisdom to those who do not see better things financially in their future. And it shouldn't be based on the idea of an investment--ie. to get something in return from it. It should be based on being a decent human being and caring about your fellow man. That's all I'm saying. Besides, while there are some people who milk the government for money, I would say that most people would rather be making it on their own. I absolutely know that most would like to make it on their own. Again, I could help anyone who really wants it, and that really is an offer I would love to make. If anyone really wants to know, email me, and I will show you and talk to you and work things through with you. Tina Tina, I won't go far as to say you do not have the qualifications to help anyone else out--you have obviously come through a lot of stuff and have perservered in spite of that, and I'm happy to hear that. However, I will tell you that while you may think you can help anyone out, it is not always the case. I have a very dear friend who is always giving me the solutions for things that come up in our conversations that I want to do with my life, etc. and he is always making suggestions "Well just go buy this, just do that." And I have to stop him and remind him that while his suggestions are good and may work for some people, they don't work for everyone. Nobody really knows what someone else's life is like until they walk a mile in their shoes. And while that is as redundant and cliche as it comes (think of the beating a dead horse pic) it's very true. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa. |
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Edited by
snarkytwain
on
Mon 11/10/08 02:41 PM
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I have a BA. I graduated valedictorian from my class. I was pregnant as a frosh and pregnant again as a senior. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me.
I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you. 
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I think it would be nice if we could all agree that everyone should be doing what they can to help themselves, and only seeking out government help from others when they can't. Nobody should be allowed to abuse the system for their own lazy purposes. It would also be nice if those who have made it, or those who were fortunate enough to be born in wealth would be willing to pass either some of their blessings or wisdom to those who do not see better things financially in their future. And it shouldn't be based on the idea of an investment--ie. to get something in return from it. It should be based on being a decent human being and caring about your fellow man. That's all I'm saying. Besides, while there are some people who milk the government for money, I would say that most people would rather be making it on their own. I absolutely know that most would like to make it on their own. Again, I could help anyone who really wants it, and that really is an offer I would love to make. If anyone really wants to know, email me, and I will show you and talk to you and work things through with you. Tina Tina, I won't go far as to say you do not have the qualifications to help anyone else out--you have obviously come through a lot of stuff and have perservered in spite of that, and I'm happy to hear that. However, I will tell you that while you may think you can help anyone out, it is not always the case. I have a very dear friend who is always giving me the solutions for things that come up in our conversations that I want to do with my life, etc. and he is always making suggestions "Well just go buy this, just do that." And I have to stop him and remind him that while his suggestions are good and may work for some people, they don't work for everyone. Nobody really knows what someone else's life is like until they walk a mile in their shoes. And while that is as redundant and cliche as it comes (think of the beating a dead horse pic) it's very true. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa. Thanks for that, and I admit, at one point I got carried away. I didnt mean that anyone was dumb or lazy. I was not mentioning anyone who IS dumb or lazy nor did I say that a particular group was. I was talking about taxes and that some do pay much more of a percentage. I think, though, that the condescending remarks from two others have gotten far out of control, and I am trying to just let this go. However much I do agree that roads traveled are always different from person to person, but I don't agree that no one can help. There could be someone out ther that could take how I and thousands of other working parents have done what I did and apply it to their lives as well. Many people dont know how to do it. Either way, I needed help and had a very hard time getting it, I would love to pass it along. Tina |
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I have a BA. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you.
I agree 100% I have a BA also and have just not had it recognized as much more than a piece of paper yet. Best wishes to you though Snarkytwain!
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I have a BA. I graduated valedictorian from my class. I was pregnant as a frosh and pregnant again as a senior. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you.
I would love to get out of housing myself but the more you make,the more they take so you can't get ahead. |
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That's true, cutelildevilsmom. Like I said, the better you try to do for yourself, the more they slip ya back. It's a lose-lose situation.
And thank-you, directandwrite; it's nice to see that others realize education isn't a quick fix answer. Hell, for my career, it's not an answer at all. I love teaching. I adore my students. But teachers don't make much money... I won't get into it cuz it pisses me off though. Pfft. |
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I have a BA. I graduated valedictorian from my class. I was pregnant as a frosh and pregnant again as a senior. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you.
Ooh...that was DirectandWrite that said it so nicely.
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Whoops! Thanks directandwrite, I mean.
Heh...  See? education doesn't do it all. LOL!
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That's true, cutelildevilsmom. Like I said, the better you try to do for yourself, the more they slip ya back. It's a lose-lose situation. And thank-you, directandwrite; it's nice to see that others realize education isn't a quick fix answer. Hell, for my career, it's not an answer at all. I love teaching. I adore my students. But teachers don't make much money... I won't get into it cuz it pisses me off though. Pfft. And I am really down with that too Snarkytwain, because I was a teaching assistant at one time. The difference was that the teachers I worked with couldn't give a sh** about the kids they taught, so I put all that I could into it...but what can you really do when it's only a part time gig and it's not your passion?? |
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I have a BA. I graduated valedictorian from my class. I was pregnant as a frosh and pregnant again as a senior. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you.
Ooh...that was DirectandWrite that said it so nicely.
Thanks Winx! I love all you guys! This is my home away from home!
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It constantly amazes me when teachers don't care about what they do. I mean, it's not an easy career to get into or keep, it's hard work and it pays lousy. Why the hell else would anyone get into it if they didn't have a passion for it?
Crazy peoples... |
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Edited by
jtip1977
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Mon 11/10/08 02:53 PM
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Here is a creative approach to redistribution of wealth.... Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read 'Vote Obama, I need the money.' The guy had more guts than a Tennis Racket Factory sitting there showing his support.....but then... Once in the restaurant, I noticed my waiter had on a "Obama 08" tee shirt. When the bill came, I decided not to tip the waiter and explained to him while he had given me exceptional service, that his tee shirt made me feel he obviously believes in Senator Obama's plan to redistribute the wealth. I told him I was going to redistribute his tip to someone that I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. He stood there in disbelief and angrily stormed away. I went outside, gave the homeless guy $3 and told him to thank the waiter inside, as I had decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy looked at me in disbelief but seemed grateful. As I got in my truck, I realized this rather unscientific redistribution experiment had left the homeless guy quite happy for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn. Well, I guess this redistribution of wealth is going to take a while to catch on, with those of us actually doing the work. You forgot to tell everyone that your bill came to $43 and you were only leaving a $3 tip |
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You forgot to tell everyone that your bill came to $43 and you were only leaving a $3 tip I think you just wanted to get in on the argument! LOL little late jtip! lol 
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I have a BA. I graduated valedictorian from my class. I was pregnant as a frosh and pregnant again as a senior. I'm a teacher. I work hard and raise 5 kids. I would love the chance to get a little extra cash to invest. I would love to get off housing and food stamps. Unfortunatley, even education has done little for me. I don't think it's a good idea for any of us here in this thread to go slamming each other into walls when we don't have a clue what they have been through. And that goes for making assumptions on both sides. You say it's not fair that we assume you are condescending or elitist, and the same rules should apply to you to not assume we are lazy or unwilling to make things better for ourselves because you just don't know what people are going through. And even if it isn't as bad as you have had it, you just don't know how people handle things either. Something that was hell for you might not be for them, and vice-versa.
Agreed, Winx. Thank-you.
Ooh...that was DirectandWrite that said it so nicely.
Thanks Winx! I love all you guys! This is my home away from home!
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I know - I'm always late for dinner
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I know - I'm always late for dinner No worries...dessert will be arriving shortly I'm sure! ;o) |
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Funny how those who are against helping the poor seem to be unable to read or comprehend the posts of those of us who are saying that poor people DO work.
 It's not a question of work ethic, it's a question of home life (children, no children, etc.), job market, career choice, etc. And this is simply a fact -- some people are better at math than others and can BE stock brokers. Others are great in school and especially science. Bravo you can be a doctor! My gifts lie in education and children. I'm a teacher. Does the fact that I make less mean my job is less important or that I am lazy? That is very flawed logic, IMHO.
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