Okay, I am not trying to stir up trouble here. I sincerely want to know what some of our more traditional types think about this article and about the position of women in religion and society.

Because I do not subscribe to this approach and know few personally who do I decided to look here for comments and opinions.

Palin a challenge to So. Baptist view of women

By MIKE BAKER
Associated Press Writer
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RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, a woman may not lead a church or a home. But prominent Southern Baptists see nothing wrong with Sarah Palin serving as vice president - or perhaps even commander-in-chief someday.

In other words: A woman can run the White House, just not her own house.

Republican presidential nominee John McCain's selection of the Alaska governor as his running mate - the first female on the party's ticket in history - has thrilled conservative Christians. It also has led Southern Baptist congregations and seminary students to confront their beliefs about the role of women in leadership.

Interpreted from Scripture, the teachings on women are held close in thousands of Southern Baptist Convention churches where millions worship. Among them: "The office of pastor is limited to men," and a wife should "submit herself graciously" to her husband. Earlier this month, more than 100 Lifeway Christian Bookstores - a retail chain affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention - pulled from the shelves a magazine featuring five female pastors on the cover.

Yet many in the denomination say the nation's second-highest leadership post is an apple to the pulpit's orange. Palin's potential work in a McCain administration - or even as president in the event of McCain's death - would be separate from her family life with her husband, Todd, and their children.

"There's no disconnect or inconsistency whatsoever," said Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. "We don't go beyond where the New Testament goes. Public office is neither a church nor a marriage."

It's a question that's more than theological. The Southern Baptist Convention, with 42,000 churches and 16 million members, is reliably Republican. President Bush has addressed the denomination's annual meeting several times. And during the 2004 race, the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign hosted a reception for Southern Baptist pastors at a hotel across the street from the assembly.

The denomination is guided by The Baptist Faith and Message, a set of beliefs that includes restrictions on the roles of women. No Baptist is required to follow the statement, but it is a central theological document for Southern Baptists, their seminaries and clergy.

A prohibition on pastoral leadership by women, affirmed within the last several years, is based on the Bible verse 1 Timothy 2:12 in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man." Regarding family life, Southern Baptists cite Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord."

Land said the Southern Baptists' position allows for a wife to work outside the home, so long as her husband agrees - and Todd Palin has long backed his wife's career in public service.

Yet, Land's view is far from universal in the denomination. Many Southern Baptists believe women and mothers should stay home.

A year ago, the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, which has its main campus in Fort Worth, Texas, introduced an academic program in homemaking, where women - and only women - are taught how to cook and sew. In a 2004 sermon, the Rev. Daniel L. Akin, president of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, in Wake Forest, N.C., cited the biblical book of Titus to argue that one of God's assignments to young women is to "be a homemaker."

"She is not lazy or a busybody, nor is she distracted by outside pursuits and responsibilities that eat up her precious time and attention," he said. "This woman is not seduced by the sirens of modernity who tell her she is wasting her time and talent as a homemaker, and that it is the career woman who has purpose and is truly satisfied."

Yet, in a recent interview, Akin said he supports Palin's candidacy, arguing that while the Bible speaks about the role of women in church and the home, it speaks nothing about women in government. Still, he said he would sound warnings to a wife and mother of five children who wanted to take on such a difficult job.

"Would that then disqualify her? No," Akin said. "Do I think it's a big challenge for her husband and for she and their family? Absolutely."

Bill Leonard, a Baptist historian and dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, called the acceptance by Southern Baptist leaders of a woman in high-level government leadership "something of a retraction of their old view." That opens the doors for rank-and-file members of the convention to vote for a GOP ticket that includes a woman, according to Leonard.

"The SBC is so rooted now in the Republican Party that their theological judgment on this becomes an issue," said Leonard, a critic of the Southern Baptists' conservative leadership.

Palin's personal roots are in Pentecostal churches, which strictly interpret the Bible, but also teach that the Holy Spirit can work equally through men and women, so women can preach and take leadership roles.

Jim Sansom, 87, who worships at Temple Baptist Church in Raleigh, said he doesn't think fellow members of his Southern Baptist congregation would accept a woman pastor, and he would prefer to see a male serving in the role. But he still questioned limits on women in the church and wonders why it remains such an issue.

"That's not the first priority," Sansom said. "The first priority is a relationship with the Lord."

But in the Southern Baptist Convention, hundreds of congregations have distanced themselves from the denomination in recent years, partly over its views on women. Several departed as they adopted female pastors.

The Rev. Carolyn Hale Cubbedge at First Baptist Church in Savannah, Ga., said the Southern Baptist Convention fails to consider the New Testament's entire story, including the social context of the patriarchal society when it was written.

"I shed a lot of tears over this," said Cubbedge, whose church is now part of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a group of Southern Baptists who have separated or distanced themselves from the denomination. "I felt like this convention that had nurtured me had really abandoned me. That was painful."

HEH... kay im religious and i had a "discussion" with a fellow friend of mine about women leaders. I may be religious but the "proud to be an American" side of me takes over when i hear women shouldnt take the lead. if they honestly have the ability to lead and the brains and strenghth to do so .. why should gender matter?

I think these two quotes sum it up pretty well...and There is a perfectly valid foundation for it in the scriptures. But even so, no one either inside or outside the church is being required to agree with it.

from what i was aware, it doesn't say women should not take the lead in the Bible. it just says so about in their marriages. a man should be followed by his wife in marriage, but only if he is a God fearing man who loves his wife as much as he loves himself, and also only if he is worthy of being followed. and when God speaks to his wife, he should always listen to her counsel. as for public life, i feel that i don't care who is running the country, i just wish someone with a strong sense of morals would run it, not one who changes values with the breeze. JC for pres, '08!!!

because that one time of the month when females get emotionally unstable

If God had half a brain he would have created women as mutes.

He would have given them a brain thing can comprehend only three things: Housework, cooking, and sex.

Clearly God is an idiot and he has no clue how to design a decent universe.

Ok, so you're saying we should only let let them start taking the lead after menopause?

Really if she can do the job then let her do it. Can she possibly screw it up any worse than it is already? Heck, maybe she could make it better but we won't ever get to know if we don't give her the chance to find out.

Though you have valid points of what "should" be........the woman submitting to her husband had absolutely nothing to do with his "Christ-likeness" or "love" for her. It was a cultural norm at the time, not a Christian mandate. (Christian being coming from Christ).

A man was to be respected and "served" simply because he was the man. A woman was NOT free of her marriage vows simply because he was not a Christian.

To answer the OP, the Bible speaks of not "usurping" authority over a man........ I would imagine that it means to self proclaim authority... I would also venture to say that when it comes to filling "offices" it is the office that holds the authority and not the person themselves........ So, Palin would be viewed as Governor, and not a woman, and a governor, president, vice president, mayor has authority over the men in their jurisdiction.

I personally do not agree with the levels of supposed "authority" people claim the Bible presents. God, then pastor, then husband, then wife, then children. A pastor was never meant to be the mediator between man and God, Christ himself was..........otherwise "Christians" should admit their religion is a fallacy. Men were supposed to go directly to Christ, but unfortunately for "Christians" the Church has twisted it around and made "Christians" view the pastor the same as Jews did the priesthood.

Anyhoo, I rambled a lot in there, I'm not even sure if I adequately answered any questions, lol.

DANG!!! thats all im saying to that lol

Because Christianity traditionally has had issues with the feminine and the power they have represented historically from an emotional, intellectual, spiritual and creative standpoint. The female of the species is responsible for the actual commission of life. That has always been a bit of an annoyance to a formless male deity who resides up in the clouds somewhere and really cant reasonably or logically take the credit for creating jack.

Look when social norms allowed it men of the church took advantage.

If you can get away with being a little tyrant with authority from GOD well hell why not . . . . .

Today its no different, its just a matter of what neighborhood you live in, how big your thumb is and how often the woman folk need to be learned.

How big your thumb is???

Is that from atrophying cause it's been jammed up one's butt for too long?

Or because rule of..... the bigger the thumb the bigger the rule?

Or a miniscule attempt at keeping ones chattels under it???

The womensfolk are learned alright... sleep with one eye open pardner..