Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: "Out of body" experiences
Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:19 AM
The mind is a powerful tool, and it can make you believe all kinds of amazing things. Especially if you are trying to manipulate it and are suseptible to the belief that this type of phenomonen is possible. If you can really do this you can go win James Randi's million dollars. Maybe if i sat next to you, with you laying down, and had a note on top of my head, you can have one of your experiences and tell me what it says?

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 11:19 AM
I think it is most likely completely impossible to have an out of body experience. What people experience is actually either a dream, a fantasy or a hallucination, or some other kind of sensory perception or malfunction. I find this viewpoint to be quite prevalent. In my experience, it is the viewpoint held most often by people who either 1) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that has not been measured or quantified by the physical sciences, or 2) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that does not conform to their religious beliefs. “My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with facts.”

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:27 AM
I think it is most likely completely impossible to have an out of body experience. What people experience is actually either a dream, a fantasy or a hallucination, or some other kind of sensory perception or malfunction. I find this viewpoint to be quite prevalent. In my experience, it is the viewpoint held most often by people who either 1) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that has not been measured or quantified by the physical sciences, or 2) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that does not conform to their religious beliefs. “My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with facts.” My mind is open to things that i cannot see as being physically possible. However, some things should be able to be proved. Tell me what the note on top of my head says and we wont have to argue about this particular thing.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 11:29 AM
The mind is a powerful tool, and it can make you believe all kinds of amazing things. Especially if you are trying to manipulate it and are suseptible to the belief that this type of phenomonen is possible. If you can really do this you can go win James Randi's million dollars. Maybe if i sat next to you, with you laying down, and had a note on top of my head, you can have one of your experiences and tell me what it says? Note: I consider the pseudo-scientific hogwash propounded by psychiapriests to fall under BOTH #1 and #2 above.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:36 AM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 11:42 AM
I think it is most likely completely impossible to have an out of body experience. What people experience is actually either a dream, a fantasy or a hallucination, or some other kind of sensory perception or malfunction. I find this viewpoint to be quite prevalent. In my experience, it is the viewpoint held most often by people who either 1) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that has not been measured or quantified by the physical sciences, or 2) believe that there does not and cannot exist, anything that does not conform to their religious beliefs. “My mind is made up. Don’t confuse me with facts.” My mind is open to things that i cannot see as being physically possible. However, some things should be able to be proved. Tell me what the note on top of my head says and we wont have to argue about this particular thing. You don't have a note on top of your head.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:44 AM
Im wearing a baseball cap which says 'screw you'! lol.

Ruth34611 Joined Sat 08/02/08 Posts: 32402	Tue 09/02/08 11:45 AM
I have experienced this phenomenon (looking at my body from outside of it) and I’m interested in others' viewpoints on it - either personal opinion or the official doctrine of any organized religion. And especially if you have also experienced it. My view: It is one of the most important factors in the evolution of my own religious beliefs and is at the very foundation of my concept of myself as a spiritual being, independent of the physical body. No, this has not yet happened to me on it's own. But, it's one of the things I think you can learn to do and I am going to learn it.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 11:48 AM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do. Ok, let's address this logically to make sure we're even talking about the same thing. You stated "...the brain has the ability to make you believe...". So "you" and "the brain" are obviously two separate and distinct things. I feel fairly sure I know what you mean when you say "brain". Now can you define for me precisely what the word "you" refers to?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 09/02/08 11:48 AM
The mind is a powerful tool, and it can make you believe all kinds of amazing things. Especially if you are trying to manipulate it and are suseptible to the belief that this type of phenomonen is possible. If you can really do this you can go win James Randi's million dollars. Maybe if i sat next to you, with you laying down, and had a note on top of my head, you can have one of your experiences and tell me what it says? Yes the mind is a powerful tool. So is belief. I don't know, nor do I care about the specific requirements for James Randi's millions dollar challenge. (I think he is probably an idiot or an asshole anyway.) Proof is always a matter of who will believe the evidence anyway, even in science. I have all the proof I need. I don't consider it to be hallucination. (It is ultimately the person who decides what is real.) Point of view is everything. What other people believe is irrelevant. I did not make the claim that I can do this at will anytime I want. That takes a lot of practice. I said that I did it a few times, enough to realize that it is possible. JB

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:51 AM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do. Ok, let's address this logically to make sure we're even talking about the same thing. You stated "...the brain has the ability to make you believe...". So "you" and "the brain" are obviously two separate and distinct things. I feel fairly sure I know what you mean when you say "brain". Now can you define for me precisely what the word "you" refers to? ok let me rephrase it. The brain has the abilty to perceive something to be real, when it is not. But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 11:52 AM
Im wearing a baseball cap which says 'screw you'! lol. Well there's your "proof". But I'm betting you will STILL deny that it is proof, even though it is exactly and precisely what you requested.

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:52 AM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do. Ok, let's address this logically to make sure we're even talking about the same thing. You stated "...the brain has the ability to make you believe...". So "you" and "the brain" are obviously two separate and distinct things. I feel fairly sure I know what you mean when you say "brain". Now can you define for me precisely what the word "you" refers to? ok let me rephrase it. The brain has the abilty to perceive something to be real, when it is not. But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 09/02/08 11:52 AM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do. Ok, let's address this logically to make sure we're even talking about the same thing. You stated "...the brain has the ability to make you believe...". So "you" and "the brain" are obviously two separate and distinct things. I feel fairly sure I know what you mean when you say "brain". Now can you define for me precisely what the word "you" refers to? Great question!! Are you the mind? Are you the brain? Are you the body? What are you?

rich4luv2 Joined Thu 09/20/07 Posts: 88	Tue 09/02/08 11:55 AM
enter true self! a great exploration, but maybe a different thread?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Tue 09/02/08 11:55 AM Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 09/02/08 11:56 AM
ok let me rephrase it. The brain has the abilty to perceive something to be real, when it is not. But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant. A very profound realization indeed. What is real? If the brain has this ability, how do you "know" that any of what you see is "real?" Who decides what is real? This could all be a holographic reality of reflections of light produced by the mind or the brain. Who actually perceives this stuff? Who is doing the perceiving? The brain? If so, how? Who processes the information collected by the brain? JB

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:56 AM
Im wearing a baseball cap which says 'screw you'! lol. Well there's your "proof". But I'm betting you will STILL deny that it is proof, even though it is exactly and precisely what you requested. What are you talking about?

Dan99 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 14941	Tue 09/02/08 11:59 AM
ok let me rephrase it. The brain has the abilty to perceive something to be real, when it is not. But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant. A very profound realization indeed. What is real? If the brain has this ability, how do you "know" that any of what you see is "real?" Who decides what is real? This could all be a holographic reality of reflections of light produced by the mind or the brain. Who actually perceives this stuff? Who is doing the perceiving? The brain? If so, how? Who processes the information collected by the brain? JB Well if you dont know what is real and what is not you will not actually be sure that you have had an OOB experience would you?

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 12:08 PM
There is hogwash on both sides of the arguement, especially the side that believes it. Im not a die-hard disbeliever of OOB experiences, but i am convinced that the brain has the ability to make you believe something is real when it is not. That with the fact that nobody has ever been able to show ANY proof that it can happen makes me believe what i do. Ok, let's address this logically to make sure we're even talking about the same thing. You stated "...the brain has the ability to make you believe...". So "you" and "the brain" are obviously two separate and distinct things. I feel fairly sure I know what you mean when you say "brain". Now can you define for me precisely what the word "you" refers to? ok let me rephrase it. The brain has the abilty to perceive something to be real, when it is not. But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant. Ok, let me first say that this exchange of ad hominem attacks was started by me and really was uncalled for and unproductive. My apologies. Now as to ... But please lets not get pedantic about my language skills. You know full well what i meant. In all humility, I truly do NOT know what you meant. In my view "my brain" and "me" are two very distinctly separate and different things. And "my mind" is also distinctly different from both. So if we are to understand each other, it would make it much easier to avoid misunderstanding if we both knew "what the other meant". Do you agree?

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Tue 09/02/08 12:14 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Tue 09/02/08 12:16 PM
Im wearing a baseball cap which says 'screw you'! lol. Well there's your "proof". But I'm betting you will STILL deny that it is proof, even though it is exactly and precisely what you requested. What are you talking about? 1) You implied that being able to read the note on top of your head was "proof" that OOB is possible. 2) You didn't actually have a "note" on top of your head. 3) I told you that you didn't have a note on top of your head, which fulfilled the requirements of the proof. (Even though the requirement was a "trick question.") But this really only illustrates my point about "understanding what the other person means".