Community > General Religion Chat

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next

Topic: did knowledge exist before God
Belushi Joined Sat 04/07/07 Posts: 2995	Fri 08/29/08 09:27 PM
*Who's* god? or is it *Whose* god? I have been telling everyone that God is actually a German Goddess naked laying on clouds offering a nice mug of cold dark beer, but no one believes me Jumpin' jeeeeeeehossssophat!!! I will ... *I BELIEVE!!!*

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Fri 08/29/08 09:30 PM
If there was noone there to know something, then knowledge could not exist. knowledge-expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject It can not exists without someone actually obtaining it.

Belushi Joined Sat 04/07/07 Posts: 2995	Fri 08/29/08 09:36 PM
If there was noone there to know something, then knowledge could not exist. knowledge-expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject It can not exists without someone actually obtaining it. Knowledge is garnered by trial and error. If you tell your child "Dont touch that, it is hot" What does the word "hot" mean to a 4 or 5 year old child? So, they will touch something else hot and burn their fingers. Then they will have knowledge of "hot"

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Sat 08/30/08 12:46 AM
how could God be omniscient omnipotent or omniscience if the knowledge to be those things didn't exist before him ... God simply couldn't exist with the knowledge to be God if the knowledge to be God didn't exist before his existence ..which would indicate that if God is "always was" then there is knowledge and other existence that pre-date his existence .. even in Genesis there were claims that other Heavens and water existed ..therefore God couldn't have been the first and only existence ...that the creator had a creator "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth." Gen 1:1. Now - what existed before this - the beginning? Other than God? Would you like to try this post again.

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Sat 08/30/08 12:48 AM
knowlege is god. so the answer is no. the knowledge of the bible may be that of God .. but God couldn't have "always been" if knowledge didn't pre-date "always been" for God to have been "always been" in other words how would God know he always been if not for the knowledge that existed before that one thought even God had to have had a first thought Why is that? He's omniscient. There's no "order" to omniscience. Else you have a self contradictory term.

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Sat 08/30/08 12:52 AM
God is eternal, so there is no "before God". eternal stop being eternal once you reach the end eternal Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. sorry "Spidercmb" but the bible states that God rested on the seventh day ... that a God needs to rest proves that God is controlled by time ..either God had to rest or the bible is inaccurate...take your pick as for eternal ..like "infinity" both are terms used to describe the possible vastness of an reality but doesn't mean that the reality is actually eternal or infinite God can certainly move about within a time frame -but that does not mean he is controlled by it. They are not mutually inclusive - nor associative occurances.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 04:35 AM
*Who's* god? or is it *Whose* god? I have been telling everyone that God is actually a German Goddess naked laying on clouds offering a nice mug of cold dark beer, but no one believes me nah if that was true then they would be giving beer and pretzels at communion instead of wine and wafers

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 04:42 AM
If there was noone there to know something, then knowledge could not exist. knowledge-expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject It can not exists without someone actually obtaining it. ..er...."Chazster" ...can you explain how someone can obtain it if it didn't already exist

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 04:53 AM
how could God be omniscient omnipotent or omniscience if the knowledge to be those things didn't exist before him ... God simply couldn't exist with the knowledge to be God if the knowledge to be God didn't exist before his existence ..which would indicate that if God is "always was" then there is knowledge and other existence that pre-date his existence .. even in Genesis there were claims that other Heavens and water existed ..therefore God couldn't have been the first and only existence ...that the creator had a creator "In the beginning God created the heavens and earth." Gen 1:1. Now - what existed before this - the beginning? Other than God? Would you like to try this post again. not really "Eljay".. because Genesis tells of the creation of everything but the Angels which mean the Angels had to exist before creation and before the beginning

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sat 08/30/08 04:56 AM
Its easy, the first people to discover planets gained the knowledge that there were other planets in the universe. The planets already existed, but the knowledge of them did not. The knowledge does not exist unless someone knows it. Read what I posted, its based on experience or understanding. Both of those require a person or thing to gain that experience or understanding. Example- lets say there were planets and all the laws of physics etc, but no life forms or supernatural beings (no consciousness at all). There would be no knowledge.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 05:22 AM
knowlege is god. so the answer is no. the knowledge of the bible may be that of God .. but God couldn't have "always been" if knowledge didn't pre-date "always been" for God to have been "always been" in other words how would God know he always been if not for the knowledge that existed before that one thought even God had to have had a first thought Why is that? He's omniscient. There's no "order" to omniscience. Else you have a self contradictory term. because that God never had a first thought or a last thought would only indicate that God was trapped in some knowledge vortex in which he couldn't learn or refuse to learn beyond that realm of knowledge ...we can that belief ... that's why the terms ominscient and omniscience are both contradictions because they both places limitations on knowledge and therefore places limitions on the amount of knowledge that a God could obtain ...which means that the God could never be all-knowing

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 05:38 AM
God is eternal, so there is no "before God". eternal stop being eternal once you reach the end eternal Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. sorry "Spidercmb" but the bible states that God rested on the seventh day ... that a God needs to rest proves that God is controlled by time ..either God had to rest or the bible is inaccurate...take your pick as for eternal ..like "infinity" both are terms used to describe the possible vastness of an reality but doesn't mean that the reality is actually eternal or infinite God can certainly move about within a time frame -but that does not mean he is controlled by it. They are not mutually inclusive - nor associative occurances. "Eljay" like I related it to "Spidercmb" I'm going by the bible which states that God rested on the seventh day ..the need to rest is controlled by time

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 05:49 AM
Its easy, the first people to discover planets gained the knowledge that there were other planets in the universe. The planets already existed, but the knowledge of them did not. The knowledge does not exist unless someone knows it. Read what I posted, its based on experience or understanding. Both of those require a person or thing to gain that experience or understanding. Example- lets say there were planets and all the laws of physics etc, but no life forms or supernatural beings (no consciousness at all). There would be no knowledge. "Chazster" it there were no knowledge then explain how the planets were formed ..it took prior knowledge for the planets to form into planets ..you are limiting knowledge to consciousness ..there are billions of events taking place in your body right now ..so you are saying that it's not taking place because you are not conscious of it or have prior knowledge you are saying that no trees ever fall down in the forest unless someone sees it fall

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sat 08/30/08 08:00 AM
You don't listen do you. Things can take place without our knowledge.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 08:38 AM
You don't listen do you. Things can take place without our knowledge. you should maybe try listening to yourself because once again you are contradicting yourself with your quote below It can not exists without someone actually obtaining it. so make up your mind "Chazster" which is it ..you keep bouncing back and forth trying to play both sides of the field ...as unsual

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sat 08/30/08 08:49 AM Edited by Chazster on Sat 08/30/08 08:51 AM
Yes, the knowledge cannot exist, not the thing. I have pointed this out more than once. Way to take one line from my post out of context to make is look like I am saying something else. Very tasteful.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 08/30/08 08:56 AM
Yes, the knowledge cannot exist, not the thing. I have pointed this out more than once. Way to take one line from my post out of context to make is look like I am saying something else. Very tasteful. ok Then "Chazster" let's see if I took it out of context by you explaining how "the thing" was formed if prior knowledge was non-existence in other words explain how "the thing" could form if the knowledge to form it didn't already exist prior to "the thing" being formed

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sat 08/30/08 10:16 AM
The same way everything that is man made in our world came to be. It was invented. Experimentation, trial and error, there are lots of ways to create things. Noone had the knowledge of a camera before a camera was invented.

Quikstepper Joined Mon 04/28/08 Posts: 2998	Sat 08/30/08 10:29 AM
If there was noone there to know something, then knowledge could not exist. knowledge-expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject It can not exists without someone actually obtaining it. Well aactually there is fullness of knowledge in the Godhead...it existed prior to the creation. So yes... knowledge existed before creation, in God of course.

Lord_Psycho Joined Thu 06/26/08 Posts: 14878	Sat 08/30/08 10:47 AM
Go to school to get knowledge why do u care if there was before GOD!!!