Yesterday or the day before I read something like this: why ask God to protect us from hurricanes if he created them. Such statement is a puerile statement trying to blame God for natural catastrophes.

Such statement comes from a syllogism like this:

God created nature.
Nature has catastrophes.
Therefore, God created natural catastrophes.

This would be the same as to say:

George W. Bush is a liar.
George W. Bush is an American.
Therefore, all Americans are liars.

Even though that in both cases the initial premise is true, in both cases the syllogisms follow faulty logic. Ergo, such reasonings are futile.

TLW.

Aren't you a little busy in preparation to be posting? ;)

Oh and BTW....I agree.

lol for once TLW- we totally agree on something

I hesitate to do this.........
I agree

Actually the second statement (All American's are liars) is actually true. So the George Bush example is a poor one at best.


I can't remember what that form of logic is called, but it is a logical relation. We studied it in some class in which I didn't pay much attention while at college. I think it was because Rachel Miller was in that class.

It's premise is

A is a X
B is a X
So therefor A is equal to B

An example would be, and I'm going to pick on the ladies...

Women are crazy
Lj and Jill are women
so Lj and Jill are crazy

or one might say

TLW is nuts
RO is nuts
RO and TLW are men
Therefore all men are nuts

However, the hurricane analogy was faulty.

Yes, there is no reason to pray for "hurricane relief." God allowed such a thing to happen so that people of good will can actually rise to the occasion and have an opportunity to spread it. He presents little challenges like that. Those that have no faith in a creator, see it only as "god allowed this," to detract from the beliefs of good people.

Those two syllogisms aren't even close to being comparable.

The first one states that God created something then it ends basically saying that God is responsible for what he creates.

The second one states that George W. Bush is a liar, and then ends up saying that all Americans are liars.

The first syllogism is a valid one.

The second one is invalid.

A creator is responsible for what it creates.

There's really no need to even create a syllogism to know this fundamental truth. It's self-evident and could be used as a raw premise for the building of a syllogism.

For example,

A creator is responsible for what it creates.
Natural disasters are part of creation.
Therefore, the creator is responsible for creating natural disasters.

Who else could be held responsible for them?

Well, maybe now with global warming we could potentially start pointing fingers at man's own activities. But natural disasters have been around a whole lot longer than the industries that might be responsible for contributing to environmental changes today. So initially God was solely responsible for the weather, earthquakes, and all other natural occurrences. Assuming there is a God. If there is no God to blame we can hang the Atheists just for fun.

So Ford should have to fix my car if it breaks down? The farmer is responsible if they grow a crop, but I allow the vegetables to rot in my refrigerator?



It's the way things are. The earth has an automatous weather system, God doesn't control every single weather event. God can take control if he desires, but God allows it to run as he designed it to do.

are you really a mathmatician and kind of a scientific?
that is fifth grade logics?

Actually a bunch of people sued Ford and Firestone for those roll overs in the early 80's. They created a defective product, and were held accountable. They are not held accountable for maintenence, because you are supposed to do that.

McDonalds was held responsible for making coffee hot.

I can go on, but your arguement was spurious, try again.

We are talking about what in theory is an "all powerful, all knowning" God right? I mean isn't that what omnipitent means? The term god in and of itself means that it is capable of anything.

Now then, you had children, you raised them, you were responsible for your creation, and it turned out that they are still your children even when they get to be age 50. You will still guide them when they have problems, offer them your wisdom. The responsiblity of creating something does not go away when the child is born. It goes away when you die.

God is eternal. This is the very premise of most religions, I don't care what one your talking about. So his responsiblity to his creation does not go away at day seven when he rested. It is also eternal.

Is God responsible for all things or isn't he. We give him credit for a beautiful sunrise, we give him credit for the gentle breeze, but when it comes to inclimate weather, we draw the line.

Ford doesn't 'create' cars. A farmer doesn't 'create' crops.

We're talking about a designer of a universe Spider. Not the mere limitations of feeble men who have to work within the confines of what has been given to them by the 'creator'.

Your analogies aren't even close to making sense. Unless you are equating God to having the same ineptitude of men.



Funny how you can so easily see God putting the universe on autopilot for things like this, yet you bulk at the thought of God putting judgments on autopilot via karma.

Your sense of rational is clearly biased to your agenda.

Exactly. Manufactures are indeed held responsible for defective products. Clearly they can't be held responsible for things they have no control over.

However, in the case of a supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing, all-perfect God, there's no excuse for defects of any kind.

There's just no comparision at all.

That's the problem right there. It's two-faced.

They want to give God credit for everything they like, but then refuse to blame God for anything they don't like.

It's clearly a two-faced concept. Either God is responsible for all of it, or none of it. It's silly to just pick and choose what we'd like God to be responsible for and what we'd perfer he isn't responsible for.

Okay guys this will probably be a first, I agree with spider to a degree here. No offense Abra

First, we have to assume that a hurricane is an unnatural thing to happen from weather, which it is not.

So basically weather is doing what it is suppose to do. Mother nature is no joke. Her natural actions are devastating to us peons on this planet.

So if you buy a car from Ford and it runs like it is supposed to, do you ***** at Ford?

The analogy of Lonely is correct if you believe in god. But it is not a bad thing for mother nature to do what she is supposed to do. Whether we like it or not.

I don't see where the judgments of good or bad come into play.

I'm not speaking in terms of passing judgments on it at all. I'm simply saying that God is responsible for creation which includes the weather. And man-eating animals. And mosquitoes, and disease, etc, etc, etc. The creator is responsible for the creation. Just like a designer is responsible for a design.

Period.

No judgments required.

I'm not 'blaming' God. I'm simply saying that this is what God created and therefore God is responsible for having created it.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone's ready to jump on the phone and call their laywers to sue God.

We live in a sue-happy society. Eveyone's out to point the fickled finger of blame at someone, or something.

I don't 'blame' God for anything. But I do recognize that if God is the creator of creation then God is most certainly responsible for what it created.

Especially any sentient life forms that it may have created in the process. God would be more "responsible" for them than anything. Especially if it wants to claim to be a good parent.

We humans take everything so darned personal!

Like the Universe actually revolves around us and that God is pacing the floors of Heaven w/ troubling concerns about our feelings about the fairness/unfairness and rightness/wrongness of what gets created.

Uh Oh... Bad PR! What to do? What to do?

These concerns are human-made!

If a human lifetime is comparable to a milli-blink of God/Creation's eye. How silly this all would seem.

God, Mother Nature... what about Father Time and the Brother winds?

Fickle fingers, I have to agree with. But on more than just who is responsible for hurricanes.

And who says it's a defect? You. Do you have the original specs? As Microsoft would say "Working as intended. Natural Disasters are a feature, not a bug."

Perfect worlds are soooo boring. Be careful what you ask for.