So JB, do the aliens have a take on who is responsible for hurricanes? Me, I blame those little mischivous imps from Beltroid seven, they are always doing something.

It is rumored that the 'powers that be' control the weather to some extent. They must have a hurricane machine.

I think they were hoping that Hurricane Katrina would do more damage, but they had to help it along.

The biggest part of the damage in New Orleans was not caused by the hurricane. It was caused by the deliberate exploding of the levies. (They've done it before, and they did it again.)

People were even warned to evacuate before they blew the levies, and when I tell people that they blew the levies on purpose they look at me like I am some crazy conspiracy theorist. THERE WERE WITNESSES.

But they laugh and call it "urban renewal" and "ethnic cleansing of the area."

JB

MOTIVE; NEW ORLEANS..... Why they blew the Levies.

Get rid of the poor folks, and rebuild a major American shipping port in New Orleans that will be a major player in the NEW WORLD ORDER and one world government receiving massive troops and goods from all over the world.

Communications were cut so that only FEMA had radio communications. Local sheriff and police communications were cut on purpose. When this was discovered, and repaired by local law enforcement, they had to place guards on the control towers to prevent FEMA from doing it again. Other surrounding counties placed guards at their county lines preventing FEMA from entering.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE.
It was on the news but I learned about these events on the Internet two days before it ever reached the news stations.

JB

You have described the "fallacy of the shifting middle" - in case you were genuinely curious.

I got to thinking about this and here's what I thought.

First of all, there was a Garden of Eden. It was perfect all the time. Temperature, rain, breeze, sun, everything was perfect. So perfect that people didn't even need to wear clothes and animals and humans got along just dandy.

We all know how the story goes but here's the question.

If God had the power to control everything in the Garden of Eden and did so, then why would god make humans have to abide in lands in which there was not god controlled nature?

First of all, what is the purpose of hurricanes and of volcanoes and tsunami's? Some say that is the nature of the planet that god created. It was set up to function this way apparently WITHOUT the need for god's constant oversight.

But why, when it's known and believed that god could make the earth a garden of eden?

Now if one believes in the whole NATURE takes care of itself idea, then either man lives according to those same naturally occuring events or not. If so, then prayer, means nothing as god has no intention of intervening else why would it create NATURE?

Controversial at best - illigical at most - and any answer one choses to use, will only divide an already divided religious belief even further.

rebellion in the heavenlies by accusatory voices to man.

that is the point.

there is a warfare over man.

call it Satan, the devil, whatever you like.

But it is the univited irreverent voice that tempts all mankind to just lie to get ahead, or fudge a little here and there, or do things secretly for advantage and privilege, etc.

pick anything that come to the mind unwarranted.

it is that voice and voices like it.

they come as errant thoughts out of nowhere.

everyone has them.

everyone knows the conundrum.

even if it is just an errant thought every decade, it is that voice.

not heard with the ear but with the understanding, and it is most certainly NOTfrom ourselves.

No one needs a Bible to know this.

But not every one recognizes it for wehat it is.

It is hatred for God's goodness by design for man in this garden.

It was the joy of God.

It , this world, has become anything but.

There is a False "God Of the Earth" that controls the weather and everything else. The True "G-D" dwells in Heaven.

God: "Thou shall have no other gods before me."

Virgin Mary: "Okay you first. The others will have to wait."

Yes that's it dedicate yourself to me because i am a much more realistic god than any of the other fictional mythological creations that are being called religion. religion is carefully worded to entice the weak minded and troubled people so that they may be sucked into a never ending loop of slavery and never be allowed to realize the true meaning of life, it is religion that is destroying our world and creating ignorance among people. Hurricanes are a natural event occurring as a result of certain weather conditions evident on many different planets they are not the result of any diety whatsoever this has been proven and until one of you nutcases comes up with a better explanation than "its the all mighty gods work" which is the same as saying "its magic" perhaps you need to go to las vegas and learn what magic actually is.

i would take anything i (learned) on the internet with a grain or two of salt. I heard the levee blowing theory, who knows, but these witnesses must have been abducted by your aliens

Thanks, I knew there was a term, but I couldn't remember it for the life of me, probably for the afore mentioned reason.

It seems to me, and this is definately off topic, that human beings only true trait is arrogance. We are arrogant about every thing we do. "Look at me!!"

We actually have the audacity to believe that a God and a Greater Demon are battling for the billions of people that have ever walked the earth. Like a God and a Greater Demon have nothing to do but tempt, entice, or please us humans. Wow, we really are pretting effing self important aren't we?

A God, of an entire universe, and he spends and his time and effort on watching our little endeavers. Yeah, that's likely. Maybe we are just a bad reality TV show in heaven (&/or hell), that might explain the 24/7/365 assumption. We are actually "must see TV." How pathetic.

And while I'm ripping on the arrogance of religion, let's tackle another belief that is truly arrogant. That we are soooo important, that we didn't just come to being out of the ooze, no we were seeded by some other life form. Well if that's the case, look out. Because as a farmer, I'll tell you straight up. When you seed something, you don't do it for free, you are expecting a "harvest" at some time in the future. That's really the only reason for planting any seeds, to gain something on the other end. Now I could see someone explaining away "abductions" as just a farmer checking his crop, but it doesn't seem efficient to plant something a minimum of 4 to 6 light years away.

Yeah, I hope something comes along and knocks us humans down a peg or two. We really have gotten to big for our britches, and it's time God, the Alien creators, or whatever stopped "sparing the rod" so much.

Now then back to the original topic. Gen 1.1 "In the begining the word was God, and the spirit of God moved across the deep, and God said 'Let there be light' and there was light."

Bible beaters, this is the end all of any scenerio of creation and the truth of our two faced God (yes, Jehovia and Janus are the same). He is both good and evil, hate and love, hmm just like us humans, whom he made in his image. Nope, no getting around this one. In the beginning there was nothing but god, all came after, yes he's responsible.

I don't know what is worst arrogance or ignorance?

Not to be facetious here - but you are telling me about the "true meaning of life". I have shirts that are older than you are. Live another 20 years or so, then start discussing the "meaning of life".

You speak of the "slavery" and "weak mindedness of people" who are religious. What vast experience are you speaking from? Hear that in a lecture somewhere did you? Wake up. You are a slave to all the non-sense you were fed in a classroom. The majority of >your< life has been spent in one. Give the real world a chance for a little while - then you can expound from experience, rather than someone elses or what you read in a book.

Hmmm I wonder if I was younger if I would have gotten chastised for classroom learning too?

My point is valid, I'm not saying that God doesn't exhist, what I'm saying is that he isn't all knowing, he doesn't just focus on this spinning globe, he doesn't come to visit, he isn't helping, and by all means, neither he or the devil are responsible for the weather. If anyone is responsible for the severity of the weather, it's us, the humans.

I will also point out that if we are going to give God all the credit for good, then we must look at all his works and see that he deserves credit for evil. He made it. He put the knowledge of it into that tree in Genisis, and did the one thing you don't do to a child, tell them "don't touch that."

I'm not just some athiest spouting off about how religion is wrong either. I'm a person who has looked at his own religion through a sceptics eyes, and seen it for what it is. I still believe in God, I can't wait to meet him (or her), (s)he's got a lot to answer for. That book, it's just a guide, like a manual for your TV, you pull it out when you have problems, and it has some answers. Once you've gotten the basics of your walk with God (or whoever depending on what "manual" you have), you take that knowledge and use it every day. Some folks can program there "remote" others still have to "get up" to change the channel. It's different for all of us, we should know that, we all argue about it ever day.

I know the analogy isn't the best in the world, but apparently we have kids in here and I figure make it so anyone can understand it.

Only if the day after you graduated you implied that you had everything figured out, and could inform people that they haven't been living in reality for longer than you'd been on the planet.
I'm sure you wuold have been seen as anything but an expert on these matters.



Well I'd say you are partially right. There wouldn't be any need for God to to be sitting on the endge of his thrown having to watch what everyone on earth is doing - He already knew/knows. Unless you are describing a God who is not omniscient -- in which case - I agree with you. A non-omniscient God does not exist.



Well - the bible tells us that all things are creted by God. Refresh my memory again - what exactly was it he created that IS evil. Not that does evil, or CAN be used as evil. What IS evil.



I tend to agree with you. The book is best used to come to an understanding when experiencing a consequence which either surprises, or is "illogical". It's fairly obvious that we can pretty much do whatever we wish without suffering the immediate consequences that are described in the OT. Else our prisons would not be busting at the seams. Also - in addition to the "manuel" - as it were - God saw fit to give man a conscience.
So - theoretically, if one were sharply in tuned with their conscience - there would be no need for the manuel.

My word, have I actually run across someone that understands that there is no evil, only man's vision of such? The truth is, God only created one thing that could possibly be considered evil in and of itself. That was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Without that piece of glorified firewood, it would have all been good, for all time. Actually it still is "all good." We just don't see it as such.

Now some might argue that man is intrinsically evil, and therefor, is an evil creation of God. Others would argue man is inheritly good, so there isn't a definate answer on that one, only opinon.

There are those that would argue that he created the angels, which became demons, so hence those creations were evil from the start. However, not all angels, from what I remember, were good creations to begin with. Satan, the tempter, a gregory if I remember correctly, had that position even before the fall of Lucifer and his crew, thus he could be argued as evil.

But the pure fact that Christians believe two things: 1) That God knows all future events before they happen (even before your birth I knew you) and 2) God created all things, means that God had to create evil. There was no Devil before God. There was nothing but God, so all things that come after good or bad, evil or rituous must come from him. He knew the results of his work before he started, including which things wouldn't turn out as he expected (including man). That proves God is either fallible (not perfect), or has an evil side, just like us humans. One or the other must be true. But (most) Christians cannot accept this as fact. It's just a logical extension of the information at hand, couple with a rational observation.

Evil cannot exhist without good, good cannot exhist without evil. If at one point in time, it was only God, then he must be both of these things. We view God as the lovely benevolent being, what he is, is actually a being in balance, one who has no internal conflict.

Now you can take my ramblings for what they are (the nonsensical babble of an under-educated fool), but the truth is, I've questioned the intent, the nature, the being, and hype of my God. I still love him, we get along for the most part, but I'm not going to just blindly say he's the only God for everyone. I had to do a lot of soul searching and questioning just to get to where I am in my walk with the Lord. I still have a lot left to go. I do believe there is just the one God, so whoever a person prays too, call him Jehovah, Allah, Odin whoever, you're praying to the same guy. He doesn't care how you do it, just that you do. I think he just want's you to find something to have faith in and follow it. Now whether anyone agrees or not, I think the theory is sound, and there is no reason to stop believing in a good theory, even if it proves not to be true.

The Internet is the only source of news these days that is not completely controlled. You have to know where to find the truth. A lot of it is crap, but the true news can be found.

However, this bit of news about FEMA disabling communication was also on the major networks. I guess a think like that was hard to deny.

People living in the flooded area were actually warned before hand that the levies were going to be blown up and told to evacuate. Other witnesses heard the explosions. Most of the damage from Katrina was done on purpose.

BTW--These people were not abducted by aliens so you can stop with your snide smart remarks which are clearly aimed at ridicule and to make fun of the truth I am telling you.

JB

Why would you continue to believe in what you say is a good theory if you found it wasn't really true? Where would we be if once found the theory of the world being flat was adhered to even though we later found it not to be so? hmmm?

RO said:

But the pure fact that Christians believe two things: 1) That God knows all future events before they happen (even before your birth I knew you) and 2) God created all things, means that God had to create evil.

Tribo:

Is knowing of evil the same as creating it? hmmm?
Is it possible to know evil without being evil?

If your infinitely "wise" is it not possible to know something without actually bieng what that which you know is? just asking.



There was no Devil before God. There was nothing but God, so all things that come after him, good or bad, evil or righteousness, must come from him. He knew the results of his work before he started, including which things wouldn't turn out as he expected (including man). That proves God is either fallible (not perfect), or has an evil side, just like us humans.

Tribo:

i don't think it proves god has an evil side or is partly evil, I do think it proves he has and always had the knowledge of evil. To me those are 2 diff. things.



One or the other must be true. But (most) Christians cannot accept this as fact. It's just a logical extension of the information at hand, couple with a rational observation.


Tribo:

to explore this a little deeper - since i think your talking mainly about the tree of good and evil or how evil relates to god's dealings with mankind, Let's look at the entire scenario that supposedly brought evil into mans life in the beginning.

in chpt 2 gen. we see in verse 9 that god created 2 trees especially - the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of both good and evil. Now nowhere does it state how close these trees were to each other so you can presume that they were close together or far apart, that's up to you.

firstly it always makes me wonder, why "good" and evil? Did adam and eve not know of good when they were made in the "image and likeness of god?" who is supposed to be the entirity of goodnees in the universe?, Did their perception of goodness only come after they ate of the fruit? hmmm? Of course this is only of interest if you believe the story is a true account of what happened, but if so then why "good" and evil?

To continue again i ask, if something is aware of or contains knowledge of evil, does that make it evil? Was the tree evil because it contained within itself the knowledge or ability that could be passed onto others who ate of it? Again just a question.

The tree of etrnal life is also puzzling, there were no commands from god to A&E to not eat of it's fruit, they had access to it yet they never ate of it's fruit? puzzling. I often wonder what the outcome would have been if they had eaten of it first and gained imortality, infinite life, and then ate of the tree of G&E?