ok. so you believe i need to be saved - why? tell me why i would want to be? what is it i gain by being saved? eternal life in heaven? whats in heaven i would want? from what i read there is nothing there that would interest me for an eternity, or here either as far as that goes, so why should i? I would rather just go to sleep and never gain consciousness again than to sit around all day chanting and worshiping a being like god. if you love me and he loves me then pray that will be the end for me, that would be a merciful god and a loving god.

people who arnt happy or never have been happy claim to be happy but are they? I may say im 7'0 and believe im 7'0 but im not... Until you actually get there you will always say you dont need to be saved until you actually become saved then youll really know what it feels like,.

What are you saved from?

JB

See I believe that all people are and were saved when jesus died for us. We don't have to worship god everyday or even go to church on Sundays. But I do believe that god has a purpose for us all and that's why he already saved us.

So what did he save us from? Was he or someone else about to destroy the world and kill the human race?

JB

We're saved from our separation from God and the consequences of our disobedience which is devastation and death. Salvation means the ability to have an increased understanding of the word of God and to approach the throne of grace boldly in prayer,

It also means liberation from guilt and from blame. Salvation means rest, eternal life, and access to the fruits of the spirit. Salvation also means freedom from fear of death and fear of eternal punishment and suffering. Salvation means freedom from the bondage of sin.

Salvation means your restoration to the way things were meant to be. Are you ready for salvation? God is ready for you. You can invite Jesus into your life and accept God's offer of forgiveness of sin and resurrection at any time. Are you ready to follow Him?

What if, when we pass out of the physical realm, we return to a place where all truth is again visible and all peace is again fully realized? What if this state of "existence" is available to all and this "complex" puzzle of which we debate (of trying to "get it right" here on Earth) only consists of "getting it?" Wouldn't it be funny? Wouldn't, when transitioning, we laugh with complete abandon? What if those elusive glimpses are gifted now and then as windows into the heart (soul)?

What if the main component of the puzzle is to forget in order to experience only that which is in the present for unobstructed learning?

You may not need to be saved, but I do.

I want to be redeemed.

What if we all get saved, regardless of getting our parking validation? lol

then I'd say you need to join the universal "savings" and loan co. there you can deposit yourself for an indefinite period of time and withdraw your self any time you choose and there's no taxes on interest accumulated in the mean time. you can also "redeem" yourself by filling out appropriate and simple paperwork with no more than an X on the dotted line.

I wouldn't want to live in a heaven where unrepentant child molesters, rapists, murderers, etc were accepted and lived, would you?

So tell me about heaven, I would like to know what life is like there.

Also, do you think that anybody really wants to sit on a cloud, play a harp and sing gospel songs all day?

no you tell me spider, your the one who's going there - show the scripture that says what heaven will be like for eternity, thnx

Hmmm. It's interesting that you claim "from what i read there is nothing there that would interest me for an eternity", but you can't tell me what is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 2:9

?? thats it? in other words there is no more written outside of the symbolic language used by john or other prophets? Then you go there without any idea what you'll find or be or anything else?


" But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." ???

good luck with that, whoever wrote it covered it very well as to no one knowing what is to be, no thanks, i'll leave that to you.

Thank you Yashafax
But I would like to ask a few more questions and add my comments on your responses.



That idea won't work for me because I don't believe we are separated from God in that it is my belief that all life and all things are connected and that "God" is love and we have full access to that.





There are only "consequences" for our disobedience because God himself supposedly made the law "The wages of sin is death" and sin is basically defined as our disobedience. Therefore the "consequences" according to Christians are brought on by God himself who wanted to punish his creations for disobedience.




Oh goody goody. How about freedom and responsibility?



The Church is the entity that attempts to hang blame and guilt trips on humanity. What this means is that it claims to absolve individuals of their personal responsibility. Hence a serial killer can be forgiven on his death bed and join the good people in heaven.

This same thing was offered in the cult Eckankar whereby the Living EcK Master was said to take on all of your Karma so you could advance on the spiritual path without paying for the consequences of your actions.

Forgiveness sounds nice but it is not the priest or guru or messiah that absolves you from your guilt, it is the sincere confession and realization that you are guilty and that you are deeply sorry and regret your actions and that you fully are changed in this realization. Then you forgive yourself and you are born again, a new person on the "path to God."

This "path to God" can be any path. It is true and sincere repentance and self change that absolves you, not the messiah, savior or guru. When this happens, you are born again. It has nothing to do with the myth of being forgiven or someone paying for your sins with his blood. That is my opinion.




Resting for eternity sounds boring. What are the fruits of the spirit?. Freedom from fear of death and eternal punishment can be had right now. Freedom from the bondage of sin can be had right here and now, as the term "sin" is only defined within religions doctrine and dogma and it means to disobey your Lord and Master. If you are already free from religion or free from your master, you are free from sin because the word has no meaning outside of religious doctrine.




Now you sound like a preacher.

JB

Just learn to forgive yourself and you will be redeemed.

I doubt if you would even see them Spider. Heaven is a big place and like attracts like in the spirit world, and even in this world. Unless you think about them or are like them, you will never bump into them. That is the law of attraction. It works in Heaven to.

You can't believe that. Children are molested every day, they aren't attracting the molesters, they are being sought out by them.

How do you know that? I was once a child and I never ran into a child molester. (I remember coming close once, but I got this strange feeling from this man's look that he had bad intentions and desires.)

I believe in reincarnation and Karma. I don't know how it works, and I know many things look very unfair. But life, death and suffering are part of the purpose of this earth game. Don't obsess over the bad you see.

JB