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| Topic: why? what's the purpose? | |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 07/30/08 10:43 AM
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You don't know how Christianity works - yet you reject it outright. Christianity doesn't work. That is why I rejected it. It works only in the sense that some people do actually repent. But even in Christianity, if the repentance is not truly sincere, they will be reincarnated until they learn love and compassion for their fellow creatures. Saying that you repent, or saying that you are "born again" or going to Church, or confessing your sins, or getting baptized, will not change your life unless you are sincerely repentant and when you are you will place your life and your soul at the mercy of all that you perceive as God, and you will be a new person. JB Unless one is sincerely repentant - they are not born again. But what of those who refuse to accept Reincarnation? They are in an endless loop - doomed to spend an eternity never realizing it. Hmmm... sounds like hell to me. Looks like reincarnation doesn't work. You are not required to believe in reincarnation. You are only required to learn love and compassion. It does not matter if you know how it works or what you believe. JB |
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gotta love that atatement. i don't want to be "required" to beleive in anything.
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No you did not nail me on this Spider, because the story of Jericho is cruel slaughter from the stand point of what Christians believe. They were robbed of their only life against their wills. What is wrong about that story is that Christianity does not teach about reincarnation. So when I look at the story, I look at it through the Christian perspective and I see a God who commands his people to slaughter each other. That is what I reject. Even in the eyes of reincarnation, to take a life is a crime that will be paid for ten fold. You cannot take lives without paying for it. It is only when you truly repent for your actions that you are absolved, and then you have learned your spiritual lesson and you will not repeat the crime again because you are a new person from that day forward. That is what "being born again" is all about. It is about learning a lesson for the soul. It is about true repentance. Just saying you are sorry will not work unless you truly are and unless you truly have changed. Then you are absolved. If you are not changed, you will return to learn your lesson. If you are not sorry about killing, you will return to be killed many times over until you learn. Christianity does not tell the true story because they leave out reincarnation. JB From the standpoint of a Christian, Jericho was a victory for goodness. We have been over this many times and you still repeat the same assertions that "God wouldn't condone the killing of those people"...sorry, but that is perfectly in character for a righteous judge. So it comes down to the fact that you are UNWILLING to believe that God would command those actions. But your own belief is that those who do evil will experience that evil in a next life. Your belief that Jericho was wrong directly conflicts with your own beliefs. Don't you see your bias on this? Step back for a second and ask yourself why a child who is molested deserved it (because it was to teach them a lesson), but the murdered people of Jericho didn't. You are contradicting yourself from one belief to another, which is why I am thankful for the Rock, which doesn't change. So that I don't have to worry about inconsistencies in my beliefs, because the foundation is strong. |
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I think being saved is like baptism the born again thing... if you reach a certain point in your life where you have had enough of your own mistakes and feel like you are at the bottom of everything and just pray to be revived or for another chance you are than saved...I am sure there is a ritual for this. It feels like compassion to see the suffering of Jesus and to feel some sort of suffering yourself and to know that you can come out new after you have been saved...
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 07/30/08 11:38 AM
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Spider,
As I said in my last post, killing is an action that will result in "punishment" or consequences for that action. God does not command it. He has no need to command such things or to dish out punishment because the law of cause and effect (Karma) (God's law) is an automatic law and does not require supervision by some deity over the affairs of mankind. God does not walk the earth and get involved with man's petty little wars. God does not command killing. If you believe he does, that is your cross to bare. I don't see the logic in it or the truth in it. There is no righteous judge needed with the law of cause and effect that is in place in this reality. It is AUTOMATIC. It is the law of attraction at work. The story of Jericho is bogus anyway. It is "wrong" to kill others in my opinion. God does not order the killing of others in my opinion. Those who were killed will and are paying the price for something in their lives (or past lives) and those who did the killing will (and are) paying the price for their actions. All debts will be paid in full until and unless the individual sincerely repents and realizes that his actions were contrary to love and compassion. JB |
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Spider, As I said in my last post, killing is an action that will result in "punishment" or consequences for that action. God does not command it. He has no need to command such things or to dish out punishment because the law of cause and effect (Karma) (God's law) is an automatic law and does not require supervision by some deity over the affairs of mankind. God does not walk the earth and get involved with man's petty little wars. God does not command killing. If you believe he does, that is your cross to bare. I don't see the logic in it or the truth in it. There is no righteous judge needed with the law of cause and effect that is in place in this reality. It is AUTOMATIC. It is the law of attraction at work. The story of Jericho is bogus anyway. It is "wrong" to kill others in my opinion. God does not order the killing of others in my opinion. Those who were killed will and are paying a price for something and those who did the killing will are are paying the price for their actions. All debts will be paid in full until and unless the individual sincerely repents and realizes that his actions were contrary to love and compassion. JB Here is the problem, you are mixing Christianity and your beliefs. Here's what you need to focus on: YOUR TAKE ON JERICHO. In your opinion, Jericho wasn't commanded by God, it was done by Joshua. Therefore, explain why Jericho was wrong in your opinion. Those people in Jericho obviously attracted war, therefore they had committed violent war on others in past lives. Your beliefs are inconsistent. By your own beliefs, the victim is guilty of past life crimes. Also, explain this: What was the first mover? For the "Laws of Attraction" to work, there has to be a source of all these evil things. So those who are molested were molesters in a past life, right? WHO WAS THE FIRST MOLESTER? Why did the first molester molest? The first victim of child molestation was completely innocent, by your beliefs. So what "attracted" the act of molestation? |
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Spider, As I said in my last post, killing is an action that will result in "punishment" or consequences for that action. God does not command it. He has no need to command such things or to dish out punishment because the law of cause and effect (Karma) (God's law) is an automatic law and does not require supervision by some deity over the affairs of mankind. God does not walk the earth and get involved with man's petty little wars. God does not command killing. If you believe he does, that is your cross to bare. I don't see the logic in it or the truth in it. There is no righteous judge needed with the law of cause and effect that is in place in this reality. It is AUTOMATIC. It is the law of attraction at work. The story of Jericho is bogus anyway. It is "wrong" to kill others in my opinion. God does not order the killing of others in my opinion. Those who were killed will and are paying a price for something and those who did the killing will are are paying the price for their actions. All debts will be paid in full until and unless the individual sincerely repents and realizes that his actions were contrary to love and compassion. JB Here is the problem, you are mixing Christianity and your beliefs. Here's what you need to focus on: YOUR TAKE ON JERICHO. In your opinion, Jericho wasn't commanded by God, it was done by Joshua. Therefore, explain why Jericho was wrong in your opinion. Those people in Jericho obviously attracted war, therefore they had committed violent war on others in past lives. Your beliefs are inconsistent. By your own beliefs, the victim is guilty of past life crimes. Also, explain this: What was the first mover? For the "Laws of Attraction" to work, there has to be a source of all these evil things. So those who are molested were molesters in a past life, right? WHO WAS THE FIRST MOLESTER? Why did the first molester molest? The first victim of child molestation was completely innocent, by your beliefs. So what "attracted" the act of molestation? I had to put emphysis where it belongs... Thanks for the correct explanation. AGAIN! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 07/30/08 12:01 PM
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Spider, As I said in my last post, killing is an action that will result in "punishment" or consequences for that action. God does not command it. He has no need to command such things or to dish out punishment because the law of cause and effect (Karma) (God's law) is an automatic law and does not require supervision by some deity over the affairs of mankind. God does not walk the earth and get involved with man's petty little wars. God does not command killing. If you believe he does, that is your cross to bare. I don't see the logic in it or the truth in it. There is no righteous judge needed with the law of cause and effect that is in place in this reality. It is AUTOMATIC. It is the law of attraction at work. The story of Jericho is bogus anyway. It is "wrong" to kill others in my opinion. God does not order the killing of others in my opinion. Those who were killed will and are paying a price for something and those who did the killing will are are paying the price for their actions. All debts will be paid in full until and unless the individual sincerely repents and realizes that his actions were contrary to love and compassion. JB Here is the problem, you are mixing Christianity and your beliefs. No I'm not. Here's what you need to focus on: YOUR TAKE ON JERICHO. In your opinion, Jericho wasn't commanded by God, it was done by Joshua. YES Therefore, explain why Jericho was wrong in your opinion. Those people in Jericho obviously attracted war, therefore they had committed violent war on others in past lives. Your beliefs are inconsistent. By your own beliefs, the victim is guilty of past life crimes. In my opinion killing is wrong. (This is a personal judgment call on my part) ~Killing is contrary to love and compassion. It brings consequences back to the killer who has to pay the price. All debts have to be paid. Also, explain this: What was the first mover? For the "Laws of Attraction" to work, there has to be a source of all these evil things. The source is ignorance. So those who are molested were molesters in a past life, right? WHO WAS THE FIRST MOLESTER? Why did the first molester molest? The first victim of child molestation was completely innocent, by your beliefs. So what "attracted" the act of molestation? I would not know who the first molester was. The first molester molested out of total self gratification and ignorance of the pain he was inflicting on the other person. He or she did not care or have any love or compassion for anyone else. I would not say that the first victim was innocent by my beliefs because reincarnation does not have time constraints. You can be incarnated in your next life in the year 1200. You can have a past incarnation in the future, or the year 2400. Soul exists outside of space time and is incarnated in any time location. JB |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Wed 07/30/08 12:10 PM
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hmmm? here's a thought Jb? if killing/murder is wrong then what is your take on defending yourself or loved ones? what happens in there karma?
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ok. so you believe i need to be saved - why? tell me why i would want to be? what is it i gain by being saved? eternal life in heaven? whats in heaven i would want? from what i read there is nothing there that would interest me for an eternity, or here either as far as that goes, so why should i? I would rather just go to sleep and never gain consciousness again than to sit around all day chanting and worshiping a being like god. if you love me and he loves me then pray that will be the end for me, that would be a merciful god and a loving god. I believe I need to be saved. I don't care what you believe. |
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ok. so you believe i need to be saved - why? tell me why i would want to be? what is it i gain by being saved? eternal life in heaven? whats in heaven i would want? from what i read there is nothing there that would interest me for an eternity, or here either as far as that goes, so why should i? I would rather just go to sleep and never gain consciousness again than to sit around all day chanting and worshiping a being like god. if you love me and he loves me then pray that will be the end for me, that would be a merciful god and a loving god. I believe I need to be saved. I don't care what you believe. ahh, the christian love shines bright as ever i see - thnx TLW, your correct, you shouldn't care what i believe, for i surely have no heavenly needs. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 07/30/08 01:36 PM
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hmmm? here's a thought Jb? if killing/murder is wrong then what is your take on defending yourself or loved ones? what happens in there karma? I am not trying to tell you that it is wrong.(for you or others..) I told you that in my personal opinion I believe it is wrong.(as it relates to my own life and decisions) That is personal to ME. I am not imposing my belief of right and wrong on others. Right and wrong are personal opinions. If you kill someone defending yourself, there is still a price to pay for that action or decision. The price will be whatever it takes for you to learn how to avoid killing someone the next time you are in a position of defending yourself. The fact that you are in a position of having to defend yourself or your family is a result of your own prior actions or has happened for a reason in this life for your own benefit of learning what you must learn. If I were being attacked I would defend myself in every way I was capable of if I felt my life was in jeopardy. Nobody has the right to take my life. But I would look for ways to defend myself that would not kill the attacker until such time I felt that the choice was either him or me. I imagine that I would choose me over him, and kill him, but that is a hypothetical situation that cannot be answered. It might depend on my own state of mind and who the attacker was and whether or not I thought I could live with the consequences of my actions. It would also depend on whether I was capable of actually winning the battle of life or death. If it came to that I would be fully aware of the consequences of my actions and I would accept the responsibility for them. JB |
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hmmm? here's a thought Jb? if killing/murder is wrong then what is your take on defending yourself or loved ones? what happens in there karma? I am not trying to tell you that it is wrong.(for you or others..) I told you that in my personal opinion I believe it is wrong.(as it relates to my own life and decisions) That is personal to ME. I am not imposing my belief of right and wrong on others. Right and wrong are personal opinions. If you kill someone defending yourself, there is still a price to pay for that action or decision. The price will be whatever it takes for you to learn how to avoid killing someone the next time you are in a position of defending yourself. The fact that you are in a position of having to defend yourself or your family is a result of your own prior actions or has happened for a reason in this life for your own benefit of learning what you must learn. If I were being attacked I would defend myself in every way I was capable of if I felt my life was in jeopardy. Nobody has the right to take my life. But I would look for ways to defend myself that would not kill the attacker until such time I felt that the choice was either him or me. I imagine that I would choose me over him, and kill him, but that is a hypothetical situation that cannot be answered. It might depend on my own state of mind and who the attacker was and whether or not I thought I could live with the consequences of my actions. It would also depend on whether I was capable of actually winning the battle of life or death. If it came to that I would be fully aware of the consequences of my actions and I would accept the responsibility for them. JB wow, cool down baby, i was just asking, i don't want to have to find out that answer myself, but i know i would defend love ones to the death before i defended myself to the death, it would be a hard call for me to defend myself over others, i am not scared to die, i welcome it - so not much of a problem, but - if someone was going to kill me first and "then" do harm to others i loved, i would probably kill them just to know they would not continue to harm others after i was out of the way. like i say, not a choice i really want to ever make, but - one that i would if need be. since i don't believe in karma, i was just trying to get your take on it was all. no nastiness intended - peace - 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 07/30/08 02:10 PM
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Tribo,
What do you mean "cool down?" I have my air conditioner on here.  I just wanted to make it clear that when I say that IN MY OPINION something is "wrong" it is clearly my own personal opinion for my own life and actions. I am not intending to tell others what I think is right or wrong for them or for anyone else. A lot of people misunderstand me on this. Within the law of cause and effect there are only actions and consequences, no right and wrong. Right and wrong are only opinions made by individuals. I understand your protection of your loved ones. I think most people will fight to the death more willingly when there is a threat to their loved ones, even more than for themselves, and be happy to suffer any of the consequences for their justified actions.  JB |
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I have been saved a long time ago when my mother gave a successful birth for me!
I am saved!
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Tribo, What do you mean "cool down?" I have my air conditioner on here. I just wanted to make it clear that when I say that IN MY OPINION something is "wrong" it is clearly my own personal opinion for my own life and actions. I am not intending to tell others what I think is right or wrong for them or for anyone else. A lot of people misunderstand me on this. Within the law of cause and effect there are only actions and consequences, no right and wrong. Right and wrong are only opinions made by individuals. I understand your protection of your loved ones. I think most people will fight to the death more willingly when there is a threat to their loved ones, even more than for themselves, and be happy to suffer any of the consequences for their justified actions. JB
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There are no facts, only opinions. That is all we have. JB |
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I have been saved a long time ago when my mother gave a successful birth for me! I am saved! This is a fact!
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There are no facts, only opinions. That is all we have. JB nah, really all we have is each other. |
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There are no facts, only opinions. That is all we have. JB Do you know that for a fact? |
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