Spider asks the big question:



Answer: Because they believed a lie.

JB

Abra,

Maybe you have found your new calling. You can found the new Church of the real Jesus Christ, and you can crucify the God of Abraham as an impostor, and burn the Bible as the lie that supports a false doctrine.!!

JB

How? Explain this to me please.

Jesus was carried away to be executed. Witnesses surely described the execution, so the Apostles knew that Jesus had been crucified. Although none of the apostles were present to witness the crucifixion (other than perhaps John), several of Jesus' female followers were. Then their dear friend and teacher shows back up. How did they believe a lie? Was it Jesus' long lost twin? An alien clone perhaps? (I think you will probably find that one perfectly logical) How did this "lie" live among Jesus' friends for 40 days without making them question his authenticity?

I can't imagine having this much disdain for the beliefs and feelings of others. It makes me feel empty trying to imagine how incredibly self centered someone would have to be to so casually mock the beliefs of other people.

Just as you believe a lie and you were not even there and did not witness anything. They believed.

(As for the theory of Jesus's twin, there have been stories that Jesus did have a twin. Who knows, one may have been an alien clone... or maybe he really did have a twin. I don't know.)

You say witnesses describe the "execution" but you are talking about a story here. It could be pure fiction, the so-called witnesses could be pure fiction. You chose to believe it as truth. But it could be pure fiction. Do you know what fiction is? It is a made up story.

The story of the crucification of a savior god had been told for centuries before the time of Jesus. It was a fable. It was even performed as a "passion play" back then. Finally someone wrote it down and so now people say it is truth.

Not.

JB

I am not mocking anything, I was talking to Abra, and I was serious. You, Spider are not a designer Christian. You are traditional and proud of it. So this post does not apply to you and I am not talking about you or to you.

Besides, the new Christians keep saying, "It's all about Jesus!" It is time for it to become that.

JB

I wouldn't talk like that about a Satanist's beliefs. To mock another's beliefs, which is exactly what was done, is to show absolutely no respect. I believe that all people deserve to be treated with at least a modicum of respect.

No, it hasn't. You should check your sources, because that claim doesn't have any credibility.

if one is "dead in christ", then how do they have personal emotions, which keep from seeing anything, and only make one call others names such as self centered.......why does your mind percieve it's own wisdom and deem it be as a negative........jesus was self-centered more than any that has walked thus far, as he was centered within himself, and walked not HEARING each thought he has as good and bad.......the true meaning of self-centered.......neutrality of the mind......it is FIRST we love to hear only half of all words, ones perceievd to be GOOD ones, which leaves out any learning that come from hearing the other HALF of all words spoken that are percieved as BAD.......how can peace be had for all, unless peace within oneself is first achieved, by forsaking the LOVE of calling something GOOD and BAD, then the HEARING of all as either good or bad.......HOW CAN THIS NOT MAKE FOR HALF-SITE.......this would eliminate even hitler from hearing all that was bad about himself, and anything else that think the same........the belief or PERCEPTION of this god SHALL be burned, and is the perception of the god of abraham, and the book believed saves if one pronounce it to be true HAS to go away, as what ADULT in christ need an instruction manuel, as was it not said ALL WITHIN WAS WRITTEN ON THE HEARTS OF ALL MEN........this understanding saves nothing in completion, but indeed lead to MORE understanding, FOR SAVING IS NOTHING MORE THAN SEEING AT ALL TIMES ONE IS IGNNORANT, THEREFORE EVERY SECOND MORE IS LEARNED.............peace

You create your own delusions of being mocked and disrespected.

I was just giving an honest account of how I see things. I sincerely see the entire biblical myth to be clearly without merit based on the historical facts that I have given. And as far as I'm concerned these are undisputable facts according to what historians have told us. The fact is that the biblical stories aren't hardly any different from all the other stories that everyone pretty much agrees are mythologies. It's all about a judgmental human-like God who demands to be appeased by blood sacrifices which ultimately culminated into him sending his own son to be crucified as the ultimate sacrificial lamb of God to pay for the sins of man.

Those are all facts to the best of my knowledge. No mocking there.

As far as Christianity evolving away from organized religion "Chruchianity" and moving toward a new picture of Jesus being the ultimate Godhead. Well, that's just my honest observation of what's happening in today's world. I sincerely believe that's what Christianity is evolving to become on a large scale.

I'm not sure how to tell you this without insulting you, but hardcore fundamentalists like yourself are the exception rather than the rule. The vast overwhelming majority of people who call themselves "Christians" do indeed talk in terms of being non-judgmental. There are many people who call themselves "Christians" who are totally open to being non-judgmental of others including gays etc. There are even Christian churches that are founded and run by gay communities.

People truly are moving away from the bigoted beliefs of the Old Testament. That's a fact. At least I see it as a fact. You're more than welcome to disagree with it if you like. But form my point of view, it's a fact.

I hear a lot of people who claim to be "Christians" denouncing the bigotry of hardcore fundamentalists. I hear a lot of people claiming to be "Christians" who also state that they are no affiliated with churches, nor do they believe in "organized religions". I hear Christians denouncing "Chruchianity" all the time. They often speak of their "Personal Walk with Jesus".

They also talk about the "New Covenant" with Jesus and many of them claim that this makes the things in the Old Testament irrelavent. They say things like, "Those old commandments were given to specific people and cultures at those ancient times and have nothing to do with us now. We are to following the teachings of Jesus"

Jesus taught love, acceptance, and non-judgment of others. That's what he taught. He taught to love your neighbor. He didn't teach to judge your neighbor.

I sincerely believe that this is where Christianity is evolving to become. It's moving away from the ancient bigoted judgmental views and organized religion "Chruchianity".

In fact, I recently read an article where it was stated that Christianity is grown at precisely the same rate as the population growth. Which means that it isn't growing at all as a religion, it's merely holding steady with respect to the population growth. However, they also pointed out the very same thing that I'm addressing here, and that is the fact that the vast majority of people who check the box marked "Christianity" on surveys and poles are indeed "Designer Christians" (or Jesus Freaks) who no longer support organized religion or "Chruchianity".

So even the article concluding that as an organized religion Christianity is in rapid decay. It will soon become a personal religious ideology that will no longer be organized and financially support churches or any other authoritarian establishments in it's name.

I certainly believe that this is true. There's no need to mock anyone. It's just the way things are. The religion is dying as an organized beast and it will become a personal belief system that is held be individuals, all of whom will have greatly differing opinions of precisely what it means to them personally.

Like it or not, that's basically the death of an "organized" religion.

I'm personally glad to know that this where the future is headed. We may finally see some actual peace and love on the horizon of humanity.

It think is a beautiful thing. No negativity here.

Abra,

I hope that you will one day learn to disagree without insulting members of your audience.

respect is earned, NEVER demanded, and if not given, then it has not been earned......

where did your jesus demand or tell anything it did not respect him......that spirit is not reognized in the things you say, and why they are rejected, but instead of looking to see WHY, INSTEAD you judge another as less saved, or less wise, or less equal, or less knowing..........this understanding lead to more if it is recognized, even though painful indeed to see within oneself......

are the words written here likewise disrespect......if this theory be correct, then WHAT HUMAN COULD EVER BE TOLD THEY ARE WRONG.........NONE......the truth is always heard as disrespect if the one hearing HATES to be wrong, and this be the CURSE OF THE NATURE OF MAN, and what each at FIRST seek to run from......THE FIRST NATURE OF A MAN.........THIS BE THE CURSE OF THE BEAST, FEAR........yes, each ones worst fear coming out in each REACTION.......TO BE WRONG........THE WORST FEAR IN THE WORLD OVER NOTHING........to be wrong is the greatest blessing EVER bestowed upon any living creature, as this means one is learning........NEVER FEEL WRONG, NEVER LEARN.....SIMPLE AS THAT......HOWEVER, THIS FEELING TURNS INTO ALL BLISSFUL AND NO PAIN EVER WHEN FULLY GROWN..............and not bliss by surrounding oneself with only ones that AGREE, lol......the first nature again........

this thinking be the TRUE CURSE OF RELIGION........nothing learn on ounce more than what it already knows except when THIS feeling accompany it for a time, and even the time one feels as this "when learning" is numbered in exact days within your text the bible..........the very root of why humankind is where we are now.........god does not kill this root within one, it is our neighbobrs, our friends, our enemies.......peace

I just state the truth as I see it. If that insults you there's not much I can do about it.

You Spider, are totally responsible for your reactions to other people's truth. Totally. We state our truth, and you state yours. I don't accuse you of insulting me because I know that I am responsible for my own reactions.

So stop using that game tactic that cries "boo hoo you insulted me! You are so insensitive and so cruel! "

That is a game of manipulation and we don't play, nor are we going to let it change our point of view and how we express our truths.

I think you scream more about people insulting your sensitivities than you preach your gospel. Change your focus a little and stop thinking that everyone is out to get you.

JB

There were at least 16 crucified saviors before Jesus's time, all with similar stories. I will look at my source and get back to you.

JB

Edited, the number is 16 crucified saviors before Jesus.

That's his standard tactic. Jeannie. He's been using it ever since he first logged on over a year ago. He tries to portray anyone who disagrees with him as being immoral or uncouth in some way. Actually that very tactic is an unscrupulous tactic on his part.

I said nothing insulting whatsoever. His accusation that I said anything insulting is entirely without merit. All I did was state historical facts. Anyone who's insulted by historical facts needs to get a life.

what is a lie for you does not mean is a lie for everybody else.

He takes it personal when anyone disagrees or apposes his core belief system. It is not personal. It is not an insult to him or anyone. If they feel insulted by it, they need to step away from the emotions involved in defending your core belief system and look at things in a more detached manner.

You are not your beliefs. Belief can change, but you are still you.

JB

so if he believes in a lie why do you care.
worry about your holographic world.
who made you the ultimate judge to say that people believe in a lie.
didn't we agree the other day that none of us hold the whole truth.
so who gives you the right to say that other people believe in a lie, just because you don't believe it.
using your very own argument, were you there in one of your several holographic lives to be a witness and assure in the way you do Jesus; resurrection was a lie?
who do you think you are to define when something is a lie or not?

To believe a lie does not make it truth.

Or does it?

So you do not believe in an ultimate truth? Are you saying that each person has their own truth and there is not really an ultimate truth? Is that what you are saying?

Are you then saying that everything is subjective and everything revolves around the individual point of view?

JB