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| Topic: I feel controversial... | |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 07/20/08 11:22 PM
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Spider wrote:
Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 07/20/08 11:24 PM
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A quick question for any? If an athiest does not believe in "God" Does it matter if their heart is good? imo they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And this is not a judgement.....this is a truth. For if the only way to heaven is through FAITH and athiest does not have faith...because he has no belief in God....nor in heaven. That would depend on what your concept of Heaven is. It is my belief that Heaven is a mind created temporary astral environment for individual souls in transition before their ascension to the higher self. Christians believe in "The Kingdom of Heaven" as if that is the only place to go after death. Each religion has a different idea of what their heaven is like. If a person does not have a belief that he is conscious of, he may find himself in the middle of nothing.. because that is what he believed existed after death. Robert Monroe was a man who did a lot of travel out of his body and in one of his travels he ran across an individual who had died who stood all alone exclaiming "I knew it! There is nothing after death!" This lost soul could not see him or anything...she believed in nothing and that is what she found. Robert Monroe wrote three books about his Journeys out of the body and founded the Monroe institute. (He is no longer living.) He said that the Christian Heaven is located on level 26 along with other heavens for other religions. If you are of one of these religions, you can only see the Heaven described by your belief system, and the other heavens cannot be seen. So I don't know where a true atheist might end up after death, but eventually he will think about something and his thoughts will take him somewhere. It is also possible for a soul to create a dream world of their own, just as you do when you sleep at night. JB |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 07/21/08 12:08 AM
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Spider wrote: Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL |
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then the true god in heaven the heart speak, and lead into all ways of WHOLE truth that lift one up higher than the heavens to see all of humanity, and how each is plauged, and WHAT plague each, and if any be lifted up, then eyes of GOD or understanding and wisdom can be looked thru, that see the whole world as first innocent, and THEN oneself is truly innocent of all now and forever, and the reasons for all that happen are explained by the heart even as one walks, and THEN one becomes an ambassador for all that are enslaved, and is made free to SEE and to SPEAK what break the binds that chain, that convince each they are BAD and DEFECTIVE..........peace |
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A quick question for any? If an athiest does not believe in "God" Does it matter if their heart is good? imo they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And this is not a judgement.....this is a truth. For if the only way to heaven is through FAITH and athiest does not have faith...because he has no belief in God....nor in heaven. What I think is amazing is that people who don't even believe in God are often some of the best people you'll ever meet. Don't you think it's ironic that these supposedly inherently evil people choose to be nice kind people on their own even though they don't even believe in a God? Kind of flies in the face of the idea that men can only resist sin with the help of God. In fact, atheists have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this ideal cannot possible be true. There are many really nice people who do not believe in God thus proving that humans can be nice without turning to God for help. The really sick thing that truly disturbs me is that Christians who think they are going to heaven whilst decent people will be rejected don't seem to have a problem with that. In all honesty I have to say that I would definitely not want to be where they are going. I would not want to be in a place that is full of people who think that way. It might be heaven for them, but it would truly be hell from my perspective. I would not associate with such people. I would rather die. Abra; I have little doubt that you will get your wish - that you will not be spending eternity with the Christians. Should I have a problem with that? Isn't that what will make you happy? Would you prefer I wish an eternity of you spending your existance with those who believe the bible? But I'm puzzled why you think Christians think non-believers are evil? Where do you get this theory from? What is ironic is your posts. You say you - having once been a Christian - understand what a christian believes - then claim that we should take the bible "literally" - every word of it. Had you never heard of a parable? Do you really think the word of God are seeds? Do you think that Christians should think the word of God are seeds because our "book" says so? Do you think any Christian takes anything you have to say seriously? |
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You can't ever get to heaven through works....only through "FAITH". If the Lord was walking the earth I think he would drop to his knees and tell the Father God, "They again know not what they speak. There is only one Judge and anyone that feels the need to judge another is very very sad indeed.....Now I also think there is a difference between judging and hold people accoutable......To walk as the Lord would like is a very very narrow path.... A quick question for any? If an athiest does not believe in "God" Does it matter if their heart is good? imo they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And this is not a judgement.....this is a truth. For if the only way to heaven is through FAITH and athiest does not have faith...because he has no belief in God....nor in heaven. awh......but to believe this one would have to first not WANT to be judged themself, which show self seeking and self saving motives, as any that judge another CANNOT judge until they have no FEAR of being judged themself, and care not whether they ascend to the pits of hell or not........this be the true test of who love others more than themself, and indeed is why it was said jesus went to hell, but then got the keys to heaven and hell......each will be made by love of the heart when it SEES, to walk the SAME path as jesus to find heaven.......did all think others that were ripped to shredds by lions, and sawn asunder for the truth, could be treated so unfairly, and that somehow now each gets a free pass.......oh, that is only what was MOST WISHED to be heard, and so found.......it was also spoken that god is just and fair in all things, and deals equally with all mankind............gotto go to hell before you get to heaven........if the truth is not worth any price, than it is not worth anything at all...........peace |
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what if that judgmental and bigot "christian" is me?  a judgmental and bigoted person does not ask this question.  1. wealth and temptation walk hand in hand 2. prejudice alone the first is an impediment to righteous living the second is an obstacle to love  TLW these are not your sins... |
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Do you think any Christian takes anything you have to say seriously? In all honesty Eljay I seriously don't give a damn. I don't take anything they say seriously either, so we're on even ground. The only thing I know is that I want no parts of the god described in the Bible. If that god is truly like what the book describes I want no parts of it. If god isn't like what that book describes then the book is full of lies. Take your choice. The problems with Christians is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to believe that the Bible is the word of God, but at the very same time they want to believe that God isn't anything like what the Bible describes. I'll never understand why they continue to cling to a book that describes a God who is totally unlike what they seem to claim they would like God to be like. It just seems absurdly silly to me. I do understand why they need to have a book to point to though. Without a book they would have nothing to base their bigotry and hypocrisy on. They need a judgmental authoritarian God to exist because that's what they lean on to give their own bigotry and misguided opinions a sense of authority and justification. They pretend that they speak for God. That's the attraction of the religion. And the danger in it. They're also attracted by the idea of saving their own butts from eternal damnation. Let's not forget the self-centeredness of the religion as well. As far as I'm concerned it's an extremely self-centered religion that is used to pass judgments on others and make proclamations about the eternal fates of their "enemies". And anyone who doesn't agree with their bigotry is their "enemy". They love to hate their enemies in the name of Jesus Christ their Lord. They can't see the hypocrisy in it because they have been totally blinded to any inkling of truth. They think they speak for God. They are the supreme blasphemists and don't even realize it. So I couldn't care less if they take anything I say seriously. I don't take anything they say seriously either. |
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feral: Debbie: Atheism, as an explicit position, can be either the affirmation of the nonexistence of gods,or the rejection of theism. It is also[3] defined more broadly as synonymous with any form of nontheism, including the simple absence of belief in deities. tribo: first off i don't believe there are atheist, only agnostics. If you say you don't believe in god - to first do so, you have to have a concept or concepts of what god or gods are claimed to be by others. If you understand those basic concepts and then come to a conclusion you don't believe in he or them, then it can't be said you don't believe in him/her/it/them. you are just making a statement that you don't believe in or accept them as such as they are stated to be by others. now if an agnostic states he does not accept your god or other gods as gods, that has nothing to do with the condition of his heart as to emotions or feelings. It is not a matter of does it matter, only of whether or not he has one. The answer then is, it matters if its "good" or not to those who are agnostics and those who are in their lives and know them. Debbie: One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something. Either way I believe with most that they either had a bad experience or are just truly lost. And it has everything to do with the condition of his/her heart. I have seen it time and time again...that something bad happen and then they believe that there is no way God exists because if he did....surly all that happen to them would of not. Which of course is never the case...because with God it is always in his time. Which again makes me wonder why it is that people don't ever thank God for all they have but are sure the first to blame him when things go bad. Why is that? deb: imo they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And this is not a judgement.....this is a truth. For if the only way to heaven is through FAITH and atheist does not have faith...because he has no belief in God....nor in heaven. TRIBO: but it is a judgement deb, based on your held beliefs, can't you see that? It's a truth to only those that hold your concept of god/jesus and what will be when we die. Your faith and what you put it in, will get you and those like you where you think your going to go. those things held by others will get them where they think they will end up also. all have faith, your is in your belief's, mine are in mine, jb,hers, abra, belushi, etc. Debbie: This is not a judgement....This is what God says....so if the Judgement is of God...then agree 100%. I don't make the rules Tibo. imo Tribo that is all I can speak of.....my truths what I believe....just as you can also...which I am totally ok with. Don't you get that? And again I agree 100% that everyone has the right to believe what they wish. you believe you have to have faith in "your god" to go to his heaven, so for you and those of the same mind as you that is "your" truth. i believe differently, those are my truth's. no matter who thinks they are correct matters not to any but those who think they have to change others minds to believing what they believe, that is where the real problem comes in deb. Debbie: I don't believe "I know" big difference. I have no desire to change your or anyone who believes as you do. What I am here for is those truly seeking that they know all sides.....Just as you may want also. Well I know for myself if Joe Blow came into a thread and took what you said as utter truth without the other side...that imo would just be wrong...However....I have never said that you or abra or JB or anyone can't believe exactly as you wish. But when I expect the same courtesy I get that it is a myth, that the bible is crap, that is not fair either. It works both ways. TRIBO: You and all others like you want to try an interject into each post that is placed by anyone differing in their beliefs or what they have faith in, that there is a better way to think and be than what they now believe. In turn it makes it almost impossible for those who may want to speak on other spiritual matters to do so, knowing they will have to hear from all of you that are here. This is why i asked M2 to start a "spiritual forum" separate from the dominantly "christian forum" that this forum has turned into. Debbie: Good case in point.....If you were to post only what you believed then I would be fine with that. But when you compare and belittle Christians and our beliefs....you bet your sweet bippy you will always have me right there...I also have asked mike the same. Now let's give you another example...If you were to start a coffehouse with your beliefs and like people....or any thread that doesn't contain a put down to Christians...I would never enter it....But again....I have never seen that done.... TRIBO: It's not that i don't think you have or should have all the freedom to believe as you will, more power to ya, it's just I for one am tired of hearing about it or discussing it with those here, i know your takes on things, there not going to change and we are not going to change each others belief's nor should we, so why frustrate ourselves by continuing to do so? Debbie: It is a given that I am not changing your thought process and you are not going to change mine...so be it. I want you to believe whatever it is that gets "you" through the day. And I think all that you need to do at least for me is be creative in your forum posts....and leave Christians out of it all together....then you can have your talk with like people and at least for me....I would never bother you. TRIBO: let each believe as they will - if someone wants to know about your beliefs, they can go to your christian chat room and ask and find out, if they are seeking others comments then they can ask those here about those spiritual things they believe or follow. Discussing and debating religion is tiresome and gains no one any good as it is applied, discussed, or argued on here. Debbie: And again another case in point....Did my Christian Coffee House....which is very upfront with what it is...stop abra, redy or others from going in and spewing their crap....nope.....I usually from new people get e-mailed from all the threads....so will I stop giving my opinion in thread if I deem it necessary....nope.....and again like I said leave Christians out of your threads all together and just talk about your beliefs....I would never darken your door. TRIBO: Live and let live, be and let be. read and learn of others without comment or condemnation, or offering your faith without being asked to do so. If you do this, i will do the same, and others will see and maybe this will become a forum where people can learn and understand all others here that think differently. OK? sincerely, tribo/sam Debbie: and the above can surely be said of you also tribo. I am all for learning....I studied many many things before I came to the conclusions I did. And I agree 100% so follow your own advice and let's see what happens. Much love Debbie |
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Debbie:
And again another case in point....Did my Christian Coffee House....which is very upfront with what it is...stop abra, redy or others from going in and spewing their crap....nope.....I usually from new people get e-mailed from all the threads....so will I stop giving my opinion in thread if I deem it necessary....nope.....and again like I said leave Christians out of your threads all together and just talk about your beliefs....I would never darken your door. TRIBO: well you know i told you i have never even entered your coffee house, no need to, I'm not looking for info on that subject deb. been their done that, but i will do as i said and stay away from commenting on christian matters unless you post something of yours on a non christian matter OK? just as you i will continue to refute any futursit talk as you will my beliefs on the rapture/parosia - sorry. |
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Debbie: Did my Christian Coffee House....which is very upfront with what it is...stop abra, redy or others from going in and spewing their crap....nope..... I only went into the Christian Coffee House one time over the past year. And that was only to complain about a prominent Chrsitian who was following me around the forums spreading lies and slander about me which wasn't true. People can call themselves "Christians" until they are blue in the face. It doesn't change what they really are. 
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Debbie: Did my Christian Coffee House....which is very upfront with what it is...stop abra, redy or others from going in and spewing their crap....nope..... I only went into the Christian Coffee House one time over the past year. And that was only to complain about a prominent Chrsitian who was following me around the forums spreading lies and slander about me which wasn't true. People can call themselves "Christians" until they are blue in the face. It doesn't change what they really are. ok abra |
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Debbie: And again another case in point....Did my Christian Coffee House....which is very upfront with what it is...stop abra, redy or others from going in and spewing their crap....nope.....I usually from new people get e-mailed from all the threads....so will I stop giving my opinion in thread if I deem it necessary....nope.....and again like I said leave Christians out of your threads all together and just talk about your beliefs....I would never darken your door. TRIBO: well you know i told you i have never even entered your coffee house, no need to, I'm not looking for info on that subject deb. been their done that, but i will do as i said and stay away from commenting on christian matters unless you post something of yours on a non christian matter OK? just as you i will continue to refute any futursit talk as you will my beliefs on the rapture/parosia - sorry. it's a deal........ |
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Debbie:
This is not a judgement....This is what God says....so if the Judgement is of God...then agree 100%. I don't make the rules Tribo. imo Tribo that is all I can speak of.....my truths what I believe....just as you can also...which I am totally ok with. Don't you get that? And again I agree 100% that everyone has the right to believe what they wish. TRIBO: deb, this is what your god says to you and others of your belief, and for those who agree with his judgement i think it is fine 100% - And no you don't make the rules deb, but you post them here as if they are for everyone whether they believe as you or not, it's hard to say that you don't judge when your using your gods words to judge with, how can you seperate them? How is one to know your not the judge since your the one expressing that it is so? If atheist as you call them are worried or concerned with your gods take on whether they will go to your heaven let them ask you directly or look in your book, every one i know here has at least read some or all of the book, so it's not like their ignorant of it's content. To state things you believe over and over ad naseum does no good, in fact many of the statements you make though you may not mean them the way their taken, may turn searchers off or away instead of draw them to your god. if your purpose as you state is to give people the truth of your god then direct them to the book - let your god do the work deb, it's not your job. |
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Spider wrote: Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL If "stir up trouble" means "correct a blatant misconception", then I'm guilty as hell. |
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Spider wrote: Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL If "stir up trouble" means "correct a blatant misconception", then I'm guilty as hell. Blatant misconceptions are basically opinions. Everyone has one. Yep you're guilty. You have sinned.  JB |
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Spider wrote: Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL If "stir up trouble" means "correct a blatant misconception", then I'm guilty as hell. Blatant misconceptions are basically opinions. Everyone has one. Yep you're guilty. You have sinned. JB Oh, I'm supposed to get offended now, right? Am I supposed to lash out at you and then you and your little friends will gang up on me? How old are you again? 10? 12? Couldn't be older than that. Come back when you can interact on the same level as adults. |
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Spider wrote: Jesus quoted the Old Testament, so should Jesus be called a fundamentalist? I'm a fundamentalist. I believe that the Old and New testaments are the foundation and are FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. ....and you are one of the people who like to stir up trouble. LOL If "stir up trouble" means "correct a blatant misconception", then I'm guilty as hell. Blatant misconceptions are basically opinions. Everyone has one. Yep you're guilty. You have sinned. JB Oh, I'm supposed to get offended now, right? Am I supposed to lash out at you and then you and your little friends will gang up on me? How old are you again? 10? 12? Couldn't be older than that. Come back when you can interact on the same level as adults. Oh grow up Spider. And lighten up a bit. Nobody is out to get you. Nobody cares what you believe, and you have every right to believe whatever you want. JB |
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My Lord said: "it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle," what if my Lord where walking this earth in these days with things the way they are nowadays, would you think He would say something like: "it is more difficult for a judgmental and bigot "christian" to enter the kingdom of Heaven than it is for an atheist with a sincere and honest heart." TLW if reckon your place in that place is well earned and assured. What if it is far simpler then the current excepted interpretation of the camel and the needle... Money can't buy your way into heaven while you are alive... But once you lose this mortal vessel ya ain't rich any more. If the holiness christ was walking the earth in the way that many christians EXPECT him to be we are all in serious touble. Vengefull lord of hosts blah, blah, blah, etc... ad infintium and nauseum. |
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Do you ever believe in common sense! why do u worry about heaven? U die!! U DIE! that it!
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