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| Topic: Just Give War A Chance....... | |
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Edited by
Serchin4MyRedWine
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:00 PM
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We have all heard the expression ”Just Give Peace a Chance” most notably by John Lennon. On the surface this seems to be an intelligent, moral, and righteous way of looking at the world. However I think it is also a very ambiguous, simplistic and naïve way to look at the world and what transpires in nations around the globe. To start with, you have to have “peace” in the first place to give it any chance of success. Second, what exactly is peace? Is it just the absence of war? Can countries such as Sudan, Darfur, Chad, Congo ,Ethiopia, Somalia and Burma(Myanmar)just to name a few, starve, torture and kill their citizens by the thousands be called “peaceful”? It’s easy for the “peace-niks” to sit in a Starbucks and say We are an evil and imperialistic nation that loves war, and criticize every military action we take for whatever reason. People like this see the world through rose colored glasses and are in serious denial or just plain ignorant to the truth of what transpires around the world.. There are literary MILLIONS of people around the world that live with death, torture, rape and starvation hanging over them every minute of every day while you drink your cream de la café in the comfort of your cozy home here in the good old USA. In Afghanistan, where the Taliban ruled with an oppressive and deadly regime, stoning and beheading woman who dare make the smallest infraction against their Islamic code, not allowing woman to learn in school, killing all men that did not practice “their” form of Islam. Millions died in Afghanistan and countless fled to Pakistan or remote regions where the Taliban had no rule. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein ruled with a brutal, oppressive regime, although Kurds, Sunni and ****es have always been at odds with each other, Suddam kept the “peace” through torture, fear and mass murder. He tried to export this style of peace to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and of course his friendly neighbor Iran. In Vietnam, we lost just under 60,000 brave men and women in a war that lasted approximately 10 years trying to keep the viet-cong from taking control of South Vietnam, yet after we withdrew, over 3 million innocent men, women and children were slaughtered in just over 6 months by the Kmer Rouge. Thousands escaped to Thailand, Philippines and surrounding countries only to die from disease and starvation in refugee camps. To me, It’s a shame that any President needs a 911 or WMD as an excuse to go in and clean out a brutal dictator or regime that is killing and oppressing their people . You might think I am some crazy war monger, the opposite is true, I, like most reasonably people wish there was no war and that there was no suffering from brutal juntas, regimes and dictators. And if I was to put on my rose color glasses, I’d say the world community could isolate these dictators and thugs and end their oppressive regimes without a shot fired, But alas there is always someone who supports these groups either for financial gains or some sick ideology. We saw that all to well with the oil for food program in Iraq. War can be a very costly item in terms of money, the lives of brave men and woman who give the ultimate sacrifice and the innocent civilians caught between the fire. But what are the lives of millions of people and their next generations worth? For them to be able to wake up, and not worry if you or your family will die today from a sadistic military juanta bent on raping, killing and starving your family. It would be great if all the “superpowers” could get together and give these countries an ultimatum, and free the oppressed, starving and imprisoned people. But I already took my glasses off and unfortunately, if we really want world peace, We just might need to “Just Give War a Chance” before we can have Peace.
I hope this provokes a different (not necessarily the right)view on what is needed in the world on behalf of the thousands that are being raped, tortured, starved and killed all over the world right now as you read this.I only wish none of us needed rose colored glasses to see the world as a peaceful place. 
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Sorry for the typos...for some reason I couldn't edit them out
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We have all heard the expression ”Just Give Peace a Chance” most notably by John Lennon. On the surface this seems to be an intelligent, moral, and righteous way of looking at the world. However I think it is also a very ambiguous, simplistic and naïve way to look at the world and what transpires in nations around the globe. To start with, you have to have “peace” in the first place to give it any chance of success. Second, what exactly is peace? Is it just the absence of war? Can countries such as Sudan, Darfur, Chad, Congo ,Ethiopia, Somalia and Burma(Myanmar)just to name a few, starve, torture and kill their citizens by the thousands be called “peaceful”? It’s easy for the “peace-niks” to sit in a Starbucks and say We are an evil and imperialistic nation that loves war, and criticize every military action we take for whatever reason. People like this see the world through rose colored glasses and are in serious denial or just plain ignorant to the truth of what transpires around the world.. There are literary MILLIONS of people around the world that live with death, torture, rape and starvation hanging over them every minute of every day while you drink your cream de la café in the comfort of your cozy home here in the good old USA. In Afghanistan, where the Taliban ruled with an oppressive and deadly regime, stoning and beheading woman who dare make the smallest infraction against their Islamic code, not allowing woman to learn in school, killing all men that did not practice “their” form of Islam. Millions died in Afghanistan and countless fled to Pakistan or remote regions where the Taliban had no rule. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein ruled with a brutal, oppressive regime, although Kurds, Sunni and ****es have always been at odds with each other, Suddam kept the “peace” through torture, fear and mass murder. He tried to export this style of peace to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and of course his friendly neighbor Iran. In Vietnam, we lost just under 60,000 brave men and women in a war that lasted approximately 10 years trying to keep the viet-cong from taking control of South Vietnam, yet after we withdrew, over 3 million innocent men, women and children were slaughtered in just over 6 months by the Kmer Rouge. Thousands escaped to Thailand, Philippines and surrounding countries only to die from disease and starvation in refugee camps. To me, It’s a shame that any President needs a 911 or WMD as an excuse to go in and clean out a brutal dictator or regime that is killing and oppressing their people . You might think I am some crazy war monger, the opposite is true, I, like most reasonably people wish there was no war and that there was no suffering from brutal juntas, regimes and dictators. And if I was to put on my rose color glasses, I’d say the world community could isolate these dictators and thugs and end their oppressive regimes without a shot fired, But alas there is always someone who supports these groups either for financial gains or some sick ideology. We saw that all to well with the oil for food program in Iraq. War can be a very costly item in terms of money, the lives of brave men and woman who give the ultimate sacrifice and the innocent civilians caught between the fire. But what are the lives of millions of people and their next generations worth? For them to be able to wake up, and not worry if you or your family will die today from a sadistic military juanta bent on raping, killing and starving your family. It would be great if all the “superpowers” could get together and give these countries an ultimatum, and free the oppressed, starving and imprisoned people. But I already took my glasses off and unfortunately, if we really want world peace, We just might need to “Just Give War a Chance” before we can have Peace. I hope this provokes a different (not necessarily the right)view on what is needed in the world on behalf of the thousands that are being raped, tortured, starved and killed all over the world right now as you read this.I only wish none of us needed rose colored glasses to see the world as a peaceful place.
When it comes to crimes U.S.A has the greatest number per ca pita . So the Us should mind their own business and they are not the police of the world . They went to Iraq for : oil , military bases and to support their boss Israel in controlling the middle east . Who is kidding whom here . Crazy politicians such as Donald Rumsfeld , Paul Wolfowitz and their neo cons of gangs came with loads of lies to justify a massacre of innocent people . 
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When it comes to crimes U.S.A has the greatest number per ca pita . So the Us should mind their own business and they are not the police of the world . They went to Iraq for : oil , military bases and to support their boss Israel in controlling the middle east . Who is kidding whom here . Crazy politicians such as Donald Rumsfeld , Paul Wolfowitz and their neo cons of gangs came with loads of lies to justify a massacre of innocent people .
No but seriously, Sam, tell us how you really feel... 
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We have all heard the expression ”Just Give Peace a Chance” most notably by John Lennon. On the surface this seems to be an intelligent, moral, and righteous way of looking at the world. However I think it is also a very ambiguous, simplistic and naïve way to look at the world and what transpires in nations around the globe. To start with, you have to have “peace” in the first place to give it any chance of success. Second, what exactly is peace? Is it just the absence of war? Can countries such as Sudan, Darfur, Chad, Congo ,Ethiopia, Somalia and Burma(Myanmar)just to name a few, starve, torture and kill their citizens by the thousands be called “peaceful”? It’s easy for the “peace-niks” to sit in a Starbucks and say We are an evil and imperialistic nation that loves war, and criticize every military action we take for whatever reason. People like this see the world through rose colored glasses and are in serious denial or just plain ignorant to the truth of what transpires around the world.. There are literary MILLIONS of people around the world that live with death, torture, rape and starvation hanging over them every minute of every day while you drink your cream de la café in the comfort of your cozy home here in the good old USA. In Afghanistan, where the Taliban ruled with an oppressive and deadly regime, stoning and beheading woman who dare make the smallest infraction against their Islamic code, not allowing woman to learn in school, killing all men that did not practice “their” form of Islam. Millions died in Afghanistan and countless fled to Pakistan or remote regions where the Taliban had no rule. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein ruled with a brutal, oppressive regime, although Kurds, Sunni and ****es have always been at odds with each other, Suddam kept the “peace” through torture, fear and mass murder. He tried to export this style of peace to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and of course his friendly neighbor Iran. In Vietnam, we lost just under 60,000 brave men and women in a war that lasted approximately 10 years trying to keep the viet-cong from taking control of South Vietnam, yet after we withdrew, over 3 million innocent men, women and children were slaughtered in just over 6 months by the Kmer Rouge. Thousands escaped to Thailand, Philippines and surrounding countries only to die from disease and starvation in refugee camps. To me, It’s a shame that any President needs a 911 or WMD as an excuse to go in and clean out a brutal dictator or regime that is killing and oppressing their people . You might think I am some crazy war monger, the opposite is true, I, like most reasonably people wish there was no war and that there was no suffering from brutal juntas, regimes and dictators. And if I was to put on my rose color glasses, I’d say the world community could isolate these dictators and thugs and end their oppressive regimes without a shot fired, But alas there is always someone who supports these groups either for financial gains or some sick ideology. We saw that all to well with the oil for food program in Iraq. War can be a very costly item in terms of money, the lives of brave men and woman who give the ultimate sacrifice and the innocent civilians caught between the fire. But what are the lives of millions of people and their next generations worth? For them to be able to wake up, and not worry if you or your family will die today from a sadistic military juanta bent on raping, killing and starving your family. It would be great if all the “superpowers” could get together and give these countries an ultimatum, and free the oppressed, starving and imprisoned people. But I already took my glasses off and unfortunately, if we really want world peace, We just might need to “Just Give War a Chance” before we can have Peace. I hope this provokes a different (not necessarily the right)view on what is needed in the world on behalf of the thousands that are being raped, tortured, starved and killed all over the world right now as you read this.I only wish none of us needed rose colored glasses to see the world as a peaceful place.
I hold no illusions that there aren't rogue regimes, movements and individuals that wamt to harm the United States and our allies. But you have to be intelligent and choose your battle. Time and time again, the United States has meddled in the internal affairs of nations and created problems for itself or its allies. Take the Taliban in Afghanistan. By supporting the mujahadeen against the Soviet Union in the 1970s, the United States sowed the seeds of what was to become the Taliban. It's time for more intelligent diplomacy and less saber rattling. But not diplomacy at the cost of giving up our vital interests. 'Trust but verify.' That is a phrase Ronald Reagan used, and it's relevant today. |
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Sam I knew someone would miss the whole point and bring up Iraq and Bush etc. Can't open a closed mind...but there are more people being killed EVERY DAY in these countries then the whole 5 years of the Iraq war! .....but then that doesn't fit in your AGENDA
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Hiker..your right of course about all the mistakes we have made ...but this is my point...it's not as you say...regimes and movements that want to harm us....its about regimes and movements that want to harm "their" people. I know its a very broad and crazy concept...but to do these actions not for our benefit but for those that desperately need our help.
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Sam I knew someone would miss the whole point and bring up Iraq and Bush etc. Can't open a closed mind...but there are more people being killed EVERY DAY in these countries then the whole 5 years of the Iraq war! .....but then that doesn't fit in your AGENDA
This is not true . Katrina showed to the world how American politicians are full of rubbish : no action to help or protect ,looting ...etc . America has so many internal problems and all they do is go and hit this and that ....!. .
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When it comes to crimes U.S.A has the greatest number per ca pita . So the Us should mind their own business and they are not the police of the world . They went to Iraq for : oil , military bases and to support their boss Israel in controlling the middle east . Who is kidding whom here . Crazy politicians such as Donald Rumsfeld , Paul Wolfowitz and their neo cons of gangs came with loads of lies to justify a massacre of innocent people .
No but seriously, Sam, tell us how you really feel...
I am against any war unless your country is attacked and then use all the might you have to defend it . If Iran or China ...etc attack the U.S.A then you have the right to destroy them . But not going to poor ,weak nations who can not defend themselves and bully them to death and say : we are in a war ! .What war ?. No balance in power and pure bulling . |
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Edited by
mnhiker
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:28 PM
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Hiker..your right of course about all the mistakes we have made ...but this is my point...it's not as you say...regimes and movements that want to harm us....its about regimes and movements that want to harm "their" people. I know its a very broad and crazy concept...but to do these actions not for our benefit but for those that desperately need our help. Redwine, I see. But why is it necessary for the United States to always be the one who has to rescue people in other countries? Why can't the United States instead influence border nations to get involved in resolving these issues? And what about Myanmar? How can the United States help the people of rogue nations if the government of those nations prevent us from helping them? |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:28 PM
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hey redwine
can you please tell me what the united states has done to help or correct the situations in Sudan, Burma or any of the other countries you sited? And also tell me whether the Unites states played any role along with the french in creating and fertile ground for maniac movement like the Kmer rouge to come into being. Like we have nothing to do with the civil war that is taking place in Iraq. Yea I'll give you your War and you can pay for it too. Oh but then you won't be getting all those nice tax cuts. Damn |
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hey redwine can you please tell me what the united states has done to help or correct the situations in Sudan, Burma or any of the other countries you sited? And also tell me whether the Unites states played any role along with the french in creating and fertile ground for maniac movement like the Kmer rouge to come into being. Like we have nothing to do with the civil war that is taking place in Iraq. Yea I'll give you your War and you can pay for it too. Oh but then you won't be getting all those nice tax cuts. Damn What I said. Myanmar=Burma |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:33 PM
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Sam I am!
Crimes per capita! Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom) #1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people #2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people #3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people #4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people #5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people #6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people #7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people #8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people #9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people #10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people #11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people #12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people Now apologize!!!
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita |
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What is the saying about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house? We have absolutely no business as the police of the world. Sovereignty is sacred and we enjoy ours. We have to give the same respect to other countries. How would we feel if they decided we are not running our country correctly and invaded? We would not like it one bit and we need to give the same respect.
So give war a chance? Hell no 
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Edited by
sam53
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:39 PM
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What is the saying about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house? We have absolutely no business as the police of the world. Sovereignty is sacred and we enjoy ours. We have to give the same respect to other countries. How would we feel if they decided we are not running our country correctly and invaded? We would not like it one bit and we need to give the same respect. So give war a chance? Hell no
................................................................................................................................................................................................ ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... [/quote Thank you and thank you very much gentleman !.  . |
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We have all heard the expression ”Just Give Peace a Chance” most notably by John Lennon. On the surface this seems to be an intelligent, moral, and righteous way of looking at the world. However I think it is also a very ambiguous, simplistic and naïve way to look at the world and what transpires in nations around the globe. To start with, you have to have “peace” in the first place to give it any chance of success. Second, what exactly is peace? Is it just the absence of war? Can countries such as Sudan, Darfur, Chad, Congo ,Ethiopia, Somalia and Burma(Myanmar)just to name a few, starve, torture and kill their citizens by the thousands be called “peaceful”? It’s easy for the “peace-niks” to sit in a Starbucks and say We are an evil and imperialistic nation that loves war, and criticize every military action we take for whatever reason. People like this see the world through rose colored glasses and are in serious denial or just plain ignorant to the truth of what transpires around the world.. There are literary MILLIONS of people around the world that live with death, torture, rape and starvation hanging over them every minute of every day while you drink your cream de la café in the comfort of your cozy home here in the good old USA. In Afghanistan, where the Taliban ruled with an oppressive and deadly regime, stoning and beheading woman who dare make the smallest infraction against their Islamic code, not allowing woman to learn in school, killing all men that did not practice “their” form of Islam. Millions died in Afghanistan and countless fled to Pakistan or remote regions where the Taliban had no rule. In Iraq, Saddam Hussein ruled with a brutal, oppressive regime, although Kurds, Sunni and ****es have always been at odds with each other, Suddam kept the “peace” through torture, fear and mass murder. He tried to export this style of peace to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and of course his friendly neighbor Iran. In Vietnam, we lost just under 60,000 brave men and women in a war that lasted approximately 10 years trying to keep the viet-cong from taking control of South Vietnam, yet after we withdrew, over 3 million innocent men, women and children were slaughtered in just over 6 months by the Kmer Rouge. Thousands escaped to Thailand, Philippines and surrounding countries only to die from disease and starvation in refugee camps. To me, It’s a shame that any President needs a 911 or WMD as an excuse to go in and clean out a brutal dictator or regime that is killing and oppressing their people . You might think I am some crazy war monger, the opposite is true, I, like most reasonably people wish there was no war and that there was no suffering from brutal juntas, regimes and dictators. And if I was to put on my rose color glasses, I’d say the world community could isolate these dictators and thugs and end their oppressive regimes without a shot fired, But alas there is always someone who supports these groups either for financial gains or some sick ideology. We saw that all to well with the oil for food program in Iraq. War can be a very costly item in terms of money, the lives of brave men and woman who give the ultimate sacrifice and the innocent civilians caught between the fire. But what are the lives of millions of people and their next generations worth? For them to be able to wake up, and not worry if you or your family will die today from a sadistic military juanta bent on raping, killing and starving your family. It would be great if all the “superpowers” could get together and give these countries an ultimatum, and free the oppressed, starving and imprisoned people. But I already took my glasses off and unfortunately, if we really want world peace, We just might need to “Just Give War a Chance” before we can have Peace. I hope this provokes a different (not necessarily the right)view on what is needed in the world on behalf of the thousands that are being raped, tortured, starved and killed all over the world right now as you read this.I only wish none of us needed rose colored glasses to see the world as a peaceful place.
[/quote With that said what branch will you be volunteering your services to..............since you are so gungho on the matter...... |
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Sam I am! Crimes per capita! Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom) #1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people #2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people #3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people #4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people #5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people #6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people #7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people #8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people #9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people #10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people #11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people #12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people Now apologize!!!
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita Fanta, Good stats, but a little deceiving. For example, the crime rate in Boston, MA is probably much higher than the crime rate in Cheyenne, WY. The western states have low populations, thus, lower crime. Conversely, states with high concentrations of population such as metropolitan areas have much higher crime rates. But places like Wyoming, South Dakota, Montana and other low population states get included in the statistics, thus lowering the overall crime rate. |
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What is the saying about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house? We have absolutely no business as the police of the world. Sovereignty is sacred and we enjoy ours. We have to give the same respect to other countries. How would we feel if they decided we are not running our country correctly and invaded? We would not like it one bit and we need to give the same respect. So give war a chance? Hell no
I love to see you spend one weekend in Burma and see how you'd feel....if you survived.....Soverniegned nation...LMAO |
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What is the saying about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house? We have absolutely no business as the police of the world. Sovereignty is sacred and we enjoy ours. We have to give the same respect to other countries. How would we feel if they decided we are not running our country correctly and invaded? We would not like it one bit and we need to give the same respect. So give war a chance? Hell no
I love to see you spend one weekend in Burma and see how you'd feel....if you survived.....Soverniegned nation...LMAO If I lived there it would be my nation to work within the government and the channels there to resolve. Not the US business to come and invade and regulate!!! 
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