Laughter is the key. Nite!

What makes you think that it’s a lie that we went to the moon anyway?

Why would NASA (and all of there thousands of employees) and the US government lie about that?

At the time we did it the only people they would really want to fool would be the Russians.

Do you really believe that the Russians would believe it if it was just a lie?

The mere fact that the Russians didn’t even question it is pretty convincing proof that they were able to track the entire mission and knew that it was true.

But if you would like to believe that it’s a lie, I don’t think anyone would care.

I certainly don’t.

Like I say, this doesn’t even compare with the aggressive proselytizing of religious beliefs that is causing political unrest that is certain to erupt into global war.

People wouldn’t care less what Christians believe if they didn’t try to proselytize the religion so boldly with lies and threats all the time. It’s their aggressive proselytizing that is putting non-Christian countries into defense mode.

Do you really believe that God would have set up a scenario like this? A scenario that he would have surely known was going to escalate into political unrest and world tension?

To believe that God would not have known that this would happen when he only seeded one geographical region on earth and then prophesized that it would be the center of a religious war, would be truly ludicrous.

If the story is true perhaps we’re all just pawns is some deity’s personal war game. We’re just his little G.I. Joe game-set complete with living G.I. Joe dolls, wives, and little babies to blow apart.

Maybe that is reality.

So sad.

OK

Jesus came and said, for all intents and purposes to the reliigious Jews, "you're done. sit down."

The apostles were not the religious Jews of their day. They were anything but, and yet Jesus still claimed that the law was righteous, albeit ineffective as a teacher of the righteousness of God.

Yet he knew, as do I, that man is corrupt and will stop at nothing to advance personal advantages and priveleges for earthly gain.

Certainly it did not stop the 'Hatfield and Mc Coy' feud between Arabs and Jews. (aka, who are really Abraham's inheritors of the promises of God? Ishmael or Isaac?)

They both insist on not adopting Jesus' mantle.

It would end their feud. n'est pas?

The fascism in this world also needs to appease the populus or it ceases to remain as guidance.

That Christian principles that are pandered to in the US and the UK, historically, do not give an emphatic pass to smear Christianity for the ills of this world, but rather should give intelligent men pause to question the veracity of secular leaders in secular democratic nations into bridling their actions and emeliorate their behavior in mitigation.

But none of that occurs without strife and contentions that are rampant in the world, especially today.


Avarice and greed confront fascist dogmas and traditions.

Chaos is the fruit.

How is it that Christianity is the scapegoat?

Christianity is the light of the world by which all fallability is measured, and measured where it, fallability, is exposed.

Wherever it is exposed, it is exposed as error.

Blaming the measuring rod for the inadequacies of the measured is truly oxymoronic and an exercise in futility.

Food for thought.

Im not sure if converting all of the Jews and Arabs to Christians will solve the problems of the Holy Land. Im not even sure thats possible. Isn't that what the Crusades were all about?Besides, there are already Christians in the Holy land. They seem to be just as embroiled in the turmoil over there as the Jews and Arabs. Im not sure that there is a religious solution

sorry mirror.

i didn't know I was going to be found defending charlatans and thieves that bore carnal swords for personal gain.

The Crusades, as they are called, are a disgrace and utter abomination to the name which cloaked their ill will and murderous strife and contention.

And were it not for that, Islam would never have ventured into Europe, I suppose.

But then, if the Japanese and Hitler's Germany had not gone after the allies supply routes, and rather had gone after the oil fields and factories, as the allies did to them, then the war might have had a different outcome there as well.

That Islam was turned from Europe, it did not happen until the populus resisted in arms. They had not been predisposed to be armed, but the Crusaders brought about that need.

Interestingly, though, we use Arabic numbers to this day, and not Roman numerals.

What I am alluding to is that fascism leaves its stain everywhere it soils man.

No. Trying to convert nations to a single religion is definitely not the answer to the world's problems.

Besides, just look at the USA. It’s been a predominately Christian nation since it’s inception and clearly that hasn’t had a positive affect on it as a nation in general. In fact, the current president of the USA is a devout Christian and all he’s done is orchestrated invasions and war.

Converting the Arabs to Christianity won’t help a thing. But threatening to convert them may very well cause World War III.



It’s not. It just appears to be from your vantage point.

No religion is the scapegoat. But the three religions that were all born from the same middle eastern mythology - Christianity, Judaism, and Islam – are on a collision course.

The heavy and aggressive proselytizing nature of Christianity is only aggravating the situation. From the point of view of the Arabs Christianity isn’t just a religion, it also represents a whole political agenda (Zionism for one thing).

In fact, it’s really not even a religion on a global scale, it represents a political philosophy, and to many Arabs it represent the American way of life. Which includes an image of gluttonous greedy spoiled brats who are grossly disobedient to the God of the Arabs (the Islamic God).

Of course, we all know that Americans are the biggest hypocrites of Christianity too!!! We have done precisely the opposite of what Christianity teaches to do!!!

So the Arabs not only see Christianity being heavily proselytized by Americans, but they also see it as being a totally empty and hypocritical belief system.

Like Mahatma Gandhi once said, “I like your Christ, it’s your Christians I don’t like”

I've been trying to stay out of drama tonight because I have alot ahead of me.

all I am going to say is there are good and bad Christians just as there are good and bad in all beliefs, as well as professions, countries, whatever. I won't think or assume all Muslims are bad because of a few bad apples. i have a lot of friends of many beliefs. I don't believe I have forced anything on anyone. I have infact tried to learn from people and asked questions (even if they seem stupid to hear)

EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions and should be able to debate from whatever their view point is. there is a line when it becomes pushing from debate with the beliefs as well as attacking from debating

is it such a bad thing to believe something???? if I didn't believe in my God I don't think I would be able to handle what I'm going through now as well as I am. so does that make believing bad???? I don't believe I have told anyone here they are wrong for what they believe. even if it sounds far out to me. it's what they believe. who am I to judge that?

There's nothing wrong with believing in something.

The problem comes in when it's proselytized with lies.

Then it moves from being a belief, into a sick obsession to sell it to others at all cost.

I hope you know I respect you. they aren't lies to me though. but ANYONE that pushes or tells others they are wrong etc isn't showing alot of respect to me. I'm talking to all sides of the debate. Christians do it, athiests, everyone. to me it's a lack of respect. i hope i haven't done that to anyone...if i have...call me out because i'm not a hypocrite. i will own up to it. but i respect people as humans too much to do that. even if they have lost my respect for something they have done...i won't tell someone to go to he11 because i wouldn't wish that on anyone and wouldn't throw my beliefs in anyone's face. if i have done this...please tell me here or email and i'll own up to it, clarify it, whatever.

i won't disrespect someone's beliefs...because it's important to them and i won't tear someone down for it. i'm not even speaking about debating points either. i'm talking about crossing the debate line

How do you force someone to become a Christian?

I dont understand why you place such emphasis on Islam. Theres a whole world of other religions. Why does this one upset you so much? I would recommend getting used to it.Its not going away All of the major religions will be around as long as there are human beings left to believe. And humans will always believe.

Nobody has lied about Christianity or Jesus' role in human history, except maybe you. You are simply ignorant of the truth or a liar yourself.

mirror...no one can force anyone to do anything. even if a gun was at my head...i wouldn't believe in something else. there are people that may pretend to have changed but you can't force someone to change in their heart or mind. only you can change.

ok...maybe i'm just tired from being a human pin cushion today and knowing i'm going back for more. but if all someone has is to belittle, try to force things or argue about petty things in life (like what someone looks like, how someone talks etc) then you must have a pretty d@mn good life. i wish my sister could have that life where that's all she has to worry about. just think about priorities etc. not saying don't debate or you have to agree with everything.

AGAIN i am speaking to ALL sides. and if i have done this to anyone...please let me know.

so what should we be saying in here? I agree, I agree I agree.

Ya know?

hiker...again....I never said that. i infact said nothing wrong with disagreeing and debate. just like i said in the other thread. again...I NEVER SAID ANYONE HAS TO AGREE. i am talking about debating with respect. if someone wants to do name calling or whatever that is their choice. i'm just saying you can argue and still show respect

who didn't show respect?

hiker...I'm talking about in general...in all the forums. but if you want specifics...i didn't come in when the big blow up was going on in here. everyone has a right to voice their opinions...everyone won't agree. i'm glad things got worked out whether it was do to misunderstandings or whatever. again...i'm talking in general

Q."What's the difference between proseltyzing religious narcississts and terrorists? A. "You can negotiate with terrorists."


A little levity.

Think I'll save this one on my desktop.

I know that you can make someone pretend to be a particular religion but I dont know how you make 1/3 to 1/2 of the human race forcibly believe in Jesus Christ divinity. Thats why i was asking

Mirror.



nothing about I slam upsets me.

isee it for what it is. nothing more, nothing less.

kinda like Mormonism is to Christianity.

As far as the world goes.....it's a mess and not getting any better no matter what anyone wants to dream up and plan for "pie in the sky 101".

Whatever wars are fought and bled over are not going to change one thing about man and his immortal soul.

That wars will be fought is a forgone conclusion.

That there will be more devastating wars in the future is undeniably incumbent upon nations to wage.

along with other Americans, we will suffer the consequences of depleted resoiurces at some point and fail to bluff the world to acceed to our national self importance and greed driven avarice.

Not to mention the banal depravity that is in fashion.

And that Jesus words fall to the ground for want of bitterness has been happening for thousands of years.

Put me on whatever sside you would like.

Paint me into a corner.

Box me in.

But where jesus is, is where I am.

Where I go when I am done proxying his message is not in my hands, but His.


In the meantime, I am planning my winter of life with my august love and not intent upon changing the world that changes not.

I enjoy the natural world and sincere people.

I work with my hanbds and my mind for food, shelter and clothing and a bit of a hedge.

I have spent my life learning and continue to learn and share that where appropriate as suits my fortuities.

I find humor in the oddest things and have an eccentric bent with an eclectic taste for clever contrivance, mostly antique furnishings and hot rods.

I like 30 year old scotch but I tend to escape it 360 days a year or so LOL

Whether or not this world goes to hell in a handbasket or not doesn't move me.

Whether or not the US survives intact as the nation that i grew up in does not effect my judgement. Though I shall most likely walk this land all of my days.

Whether or not anything changes, I will be given strength to endure it, come what may.

But for the life of me, the only line I draw in the sand is that Jesus Is Lord.


all else is sinking sand.