And that is always the final statement in that argument, when all else has failed isn't it?

Christians just can't wait for the apocalypse, and they probably envision themselves saying to everyone... see, I told you so! You should have listened!

And they just can't wait until that day, in fact, they actively engage in activities and wars that attempt to fulfill Biblical prophecy ~~ which includes helping the Jews get back to Israel and will also include helping in the destruction of the nation of Israel and the Jews, and the destruction and rebuilding of the temple mount, and the next global war, because they believe certain things must happen before Jesus Christ comes back.

It is insanity, plain and simple. I'm sorry, that's the way I see it. I love you all, but you are insane.


That is not "prophecy coming to pass" it is a man made self-fulfilling of a perceived future. Revelations is simply a strangely coded instruction book being used today by certain people to try to fulfill some age old agenda (of the earth game) and called "prophecy."

People need to wake up an see the deception. Some won't. I'm really sorry.

It probably doesn't matter either way. We will ascend to the higher planes, but the actual human race on earth is doomed to extinction and or slavery.

JB

Well actually I did mean it as a final statement as if anything failed.....I don't look at it like that. And as a matter of fact I can wait for the end of days....as I still have massive amounts to do....But I am in no way afraid of it.

And trust me love no one on earth can "make" anything happen. And if I am insane ok well so be it......And a rather bold statement from JB regarding deception....I guess I could say the same.....you are insane in your beliefs and you better wake up and smell the coffee before it's to late....but as this is not me....I won't say it....

People make things happen all the time.

Correction: After He was dead but before He was removed from the cross. It was common practice to "make sure" that they had died. Furthermore the next day was the Sabbath and as I understand it there were to be no crucifixtions on the Sabbath. I could be wrong/often am.

Who cares when His side was pierced, anyway? Do you think it actually mattered to him?

Dig those heels in... continue to vehemently cling to your beliefs, leaving no room for any differences in perspective. It's all fear driven, anyway... You choose a life that's ruled by the idea that you're / we're all intrinsically flawed. You'll probably exclaim that my perspective is flawed because I don't see it from a your ("Christian") perspective... Poor soul that I am... I haven't been saved.

Sorry you feel that way. I don't. Sorry you hate. I don't. Sorry you fear someone telling you are wrong. I don't. I have joy in my life and a purpose just as you do. If you let your shield down just a bit you will be able to see that those around you aren't armed and pointing their swords at you. A few, maybe,and I apologize for that, but the majority of us Christians simply want to live what we understand to be the truth, just as you do with your truth. Peace friend!

Actually it DID matter when His side was pierced:
http://www.google.com/search?q=when+was+jesus+pierced%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
THE Jews feared much lest Pilate should leave the bodies of the three crucified men on their crosses all the next day, which was the Sabbath, and the most solemn day of the great paschal festival. To prevent so great a profanation, they sent a deputation to the governor, beseeching him to remove them as speedily as possible. An order to this effect was immediately granted, and the soldiers proceeded at once to execute upon the crucified the extreme penalty of the law. "The soldiers therefore came, and they broke the legs of the first and of the other that was crucified with Him. But after they were come to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers with a spear opened His side, and immediately there came out blood and water." (John xix. 32-34.) Jesus, now beyond the reach of pain, made no movement as this last outrage was inflicted upon Him; the body hung there still and lifeless.

Oh please,...

You're telling Splendidlife that she "hates" just because she disagrees with your religion?

I think Christians are the ones who are displaying hate when they say things like that.

Everyone who disagrees with CHristianty hates?

Yeah right.

This is a funny quote from you Zap. When I am on here expressing my views you sure act like you do not like it. Maybe you should look to your own words

Actually... my last post wasn't directed at you at all, Zap. As a matter of fact, what I'm saying isn't out of hate at all. Ultimately, I'm suggesting that one be open to the possibility that there's more than one single truth. Just because I don't celebrate the death of Jesus Christ, doesn't mean that I don't celebrate His life.

As a young child, I believed that Christianity was a celebration of Universal connectedness. Then something unthinkable happened. I was the youngest in my family and was ushered off to my fanatic neighbors' house while the rest of my family went to the hospital (I'd just witnessed my sister getting hit by a car). What my family didn't realize was that the neighbors weren't taking care of me, but were traumatizing me. They shoved me to my knees, crammed a crucifix in my hands and squeezed hard... all while shaking me & screaming at me to pray for my sister's life. If I wanted her to live I'd better pray to God to save her. I was so frightened that I just pretended (I was five). My sister survived in a coma for only 10 more days and then passed away. To a five-year-old, it could have been perceived as all my fault. That's what happened.

Is it any wonder I come at this subject with some energy? Believe me, it isn't hate. It's just that I tend to get a tad bit squeamish when ever it's strongly suggested that I believe as someone else does.

Amen.

Thank you for clarifying that. I am sorry you had that initial experience with over zealous people that were on the fringe of sanity. The point I am trying to make which is contrary to what a few on here want to hear, is that most of us Christians are nearly impossible to pick out of a crowd...... unless you pay attention. I cannot see my faith changing anytime before death. I am here for friendship and fellowship with believers and non-believers. there are puppy kickers here from both sides of the fence and it is too bad that their anger toward those with differing views blinds them while they cover their ears and scream about the other side being intolerant. It is true that none of us will know the answer until the lights go out for the last time. I believe I know and it isn't fear driven. That is a statement made by non-believers out of ignorance not fact. Buzz phrases. Gotta love em. I am happy to learn from all on each side of the fence but I turn a deaf ear to the closed minded whose mouths flap like a broken Pez dispenser. In fact, I choose to not reply to their useless drivel. I won't let them rob me of my joy. They will have to find a puppy to kick elsewhere. Thanks again for your clarification splendid!

As I have stated before...... I have nothing to say to you. The situation you are in is why you are angry with God. Take it up with Him. I will pray for you and for your health. I DO care. I cannot, however, be a part of your war on God. You are here because your parents had sex. Blame them. I have been as nice to you as I can be but you are in these threads for what appears to be an ulterior motive. I WILL pray for you and I hope you find happiness.

Apparently you DO have something to say to me...

Dude... You are SO missing the point here.

War on God? Where in what I wrote did I ever express having a beef with God? You only hear what you want to hear.

If I had an issue with anyone, it would have to be with the fanatics that can't see past their own ideals and get nasty when others express any point of view different than their own...

See this is exactly my point. No one can have a view that is contradictory to your religion and still be living a peaceful normal life.
I do not get angry with the easter bunny and I don't get angry with God. I do get upset when Christians try to take something like creationism and slip it into a science class. That does get me very upset. I also think is very sad the way that you make a hostile environment for people that are homosexual. When people love each other it is never a sin.

Zap...

I mistook your reply to yzrabbit as being directed toward me (he and I must have posted simultaneously). My last reply was in that context (D'oh!) Sorry.

No one can rob you of your joy. I'm relieved that my sharing didn't inspire your other response (got it - not intended for me). Apparently, there's a history here that I, as a newbie, know nothing about. I'm not here to tell anyone that they're wrong.

I haven't read any of what has been written, so i'm not arguing with anybody, and it's not my intent either.
ergo, what i'm going to write is just my personal interpretation.
that refers to the inminent return of my Lord to Earth.
When is going to happen? we don't know
How is going to happen? well, it's written in the Holy Book.
However, my point of view is that I need to be ready for when that day come. I don't know if I'm going to be on the earth or i will be rised from the grave.
The only thing I know is that I don't have to live my life centered in the end of the world.
I have to live my life day by day being a witness of the love my Lord. How am i going to do that? Sharing the love God has already given me to my brothers and sisters in simple and everyday things.
If the end of the days come while I'm alive cool, if not the same thing.
The end of the world is not the center of my faith. The center of my faith is the resurrection of my Lord which is how He defeated death and will grant me eternal life.

TLW

Man might have tried to turn Jesus into a religion, but true christianity is still all about Relationship with God, and not religion, Abra.

And btw ,Abra....when God allowed Jesus to take our place on the cross ,God already
knew Jesus would rise from that grave, and live....and not only live..but would make a way so that we would be able to live forever too....in a restored fellowship back with the Father....thru accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.


Point is.. this horrible death that God allowed His Son to CHOOSE to go thru.. resulted in a great Victory ......and allows all those who believe on Him now, to have a great Victory in our lives too....plus restored fellowship back with the Father ...all because of what Jesus already did for us on that cross

Zap,

perhaps we are both right. I suppose it is not that absolutely clear in the passage, even though I take it to mean that Jesus was off the cross when pierced.

Here's the passage.
John 19: 31-34.
"The jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath was an high day), besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of tghe first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwirth came there out blood and water.



This fulfilled a prophesy in the Psalms. 34:20, "He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken."



I don't see how they could brake the legs of the crucified if they were still nailed to the cross. It is so much easier to remove them from the crosses first, I would reason.

Second point of interest is that we now know , medically speaking, that blood separates red from white corpusles after death...thus the 'water and the blood' appearing from the piercing. He was basically bled out on the ground.


I only belabor the point because so many detractors, not you of course, insist that Jesus was not dead. It seemed an appropriate place to rest that theory.

The soldiers' name was Longines and there are Roman records that accredit him as the soldier that pierced Jesus' side.

The spear still exists. Even Adolph Hitler was enamored with acquiring it. For what reason, I have no clue, but it is known to have been his desire.

Too many witnesses that Jesus died to off-handedly discard it as a manipulation of facts concerning his death and the subsequent naturally impossible resurrection of his lifeless and torn body.

peace, out.