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| Topic: Let I Be . Said | |
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Edited by
feralcatlady
on
Fri 04/18/08 10:30 AM
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Let It Be Said!!!!
Revelation 1: 7 Behold, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so Amen. I have done alot of different threads in the religion forums. I have just recently done one on "The Last Days" I was going to put this in there and then the Lord spoke to my heart and wants it to stand on it's own. I would like your interpretation of what you think this means. I will save my answer for when the Lord wishes. |
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Let It Be Said!!!! Revelation 1: 7 Behold, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so Amen. I have done alot of different threads in the religion forums. I have just recently done one on "The Last Days" I was going to put this in there and then the Lord spoke to my heart and wants it to stand on it's own. I would like your interpretation of what you think this means. I will save my answer for when the Lord wishes. I prefer the KJV, it seems more clear. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I believe that "cloud" refers to the cloud that led the Israelites through the desert. Signs will mark the coming of Jesus and the whole world will see Jesus' coming. In this day and age, it will probably be televised. Jesus' coming will result in terror and fear among everyone on earth. The saved will have already been raptured and the unsaved will face the wrath of God. Those who are alive when Jesus comes will have rejected Jesus and the signs; their folly will to all too clear to them in that moment. |
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I look at the phrase those who pierced him and I think it was the Religious people who wanted his death. And then I think it was an Roman that actually pierced his side. I have often heard the US called the New Rome because we are the world power at this time, because we have a representative govt, and so on. So I would think that if God came back today he would be coming for all the religious Americans. |
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I would like your interpretation of what you think this means.
Well this fits in with other things that I believe Jesus himself had actually said. That he would return before the current generation ended. and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him
I believe that Jesus was actually a ‘doomsday preacher’ in his time. He said that ‘heaven is at hand’. From my point of view that could have been taking two different ways. Either he meant that this life on earth is indeed heaven. Or he meant that the coming of the end was very near. If you take the second interpretation, along with other things he had stated that indicated that he would come back for his own disciples (within their generation), then Revelations would have made sense that the men who actually pierced him would still be living at that time. And that would probably have included all that took part in his crucifixion. From my point of view then this would have just been demagoguery based on the martyrdom of Jesus. Otherwise it make no sense to me if Jesus were to return in this day and age. The other things that really gets me is the Christian interpretation that those who don’t believe today that Jesus was actually God are somehow ‘denouncing’ him. And that it’s important to be acknowledge that he is God. I think that also came from the fact that people denounced Jesus at the time of the crucifixion. That’s when he needed for people to support him and stand up for him. It’s kind of late for that now. There’s no threat in standing up for Jesus today. The threat existed when the Romans were preparing to crucify him, that’s when people needed to step forward and support him. It’s meaningless to support him today. The crucifixion is already done. It’s too late to make a stand againt that now. |
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I look at the phrase those who pierced him and I think it was the Religious people who wanted his death. And then I think it was an Roman that actually pierced his side. I have often heard the US called the New Rome because we are the world power at this time, because we have a representative govt, and so on. So I would think that if God came back today he would be coming for all the religious Americans. It was the roman soldier that pierced his side when he was hung on the cross..... |
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I will not answer or give my interpretation until all have said theres. But I will say as I made a mental note to myself. That I find it so interesting that for the most part the ones that come in with a say.....are always the same ones that don't believe it any of it in the first place. Why is that? Just an observation on my part........
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I look at the phrase those who pierced him and I think it was the Religious people who wanted his death. And then I think it was an Roman that actually pierced his side. I have often heard the US called the New Rome because we are the world power at this time, because we have a representative govt, and so on. So I would think that if God came back today he would be coming for all the religious Americans. It was the roman soldier that pierced his side when he was hung on the cross..... Do you think our soldiers are heroes that you back 100% ? Since soldiers are the representatives and most often hero's of the people, I think it is fair to say that everyone is in the same boat with them. |
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That I find it so interesting that for the most part the ones that come in with a say.....are always the same ones that don't believe it any of it in the first place. Why is that? Just an observation on my part........
The whole story of Jesus is part of the history of humanity. A person doesn't need to believe that he was God to have an opinion on the stories that were written about him. Why do religious people feel like they are the only ones who have a right to hold a view on literature that is part of human history???? To you it’s a religion. To me it’s a no different than Greek Mythology. If someone posted something about Greek Mythology I’d probably comment on that too. 
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I will not answer or give my interpretation until all have said theres. But I will say as I made a mental note to myself. That I find it so interesting that for the most part the ones that come in with a say.....are always the same ones that don't believe it any of it in the first place. Why is that? Just an observation on my part........ Probably because most "believers" are afraid or too shy to question what they don't understand and they simply sit and wait for someone else to interpret scripture for them. We on the other hand have spent some time interpreting scripture ourselves and trying to understand it, all the while being told we are "bold" and asked "How dare we question the word of God" as if we are supposed to just accept it as it is given. JB |
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...clouds of witness...
 
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BTW.
Jesus' side was pierced AFTER he was removed from the cross and already dead.
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Probably because most "believers" are afraid or too shy to question what they don't understand and they simply sit and wait for someone else to interpret scripture for them. We on the other hand have spent some time interpreting scripture ourselves and trying to understand it, all the while being told we are "bold" and asked "How dare we question the word of God" as if we are supposed to just accept it as it is given. JB Exactly. What believer is going to offer an interpretation that flies in the face of the belief. If all you want is for believers to give supporting views then you aren’t really asking for views, you’re just asking for support. You should post in Help and Support for that. 
Seriously though, it’s true. How many people are going to get up in church and give negative ‘testimonies’? What do you think people in a church would do if they asked people to stand up and give their testimonies and I stood up and said, “Well I asked Jesus to come into my life many years ago, and I asked him time and time again after that, and I got no answer, nothing, zip, zilch”. Do you think they would accept that as a valid ‘testimony”. I think not. They’d all be rushing over to me with the pity talk, “Oh we’re so sorry to hear that you have such a trouble soul, try it again. Here’s we’ll walk you up to the alter right now, you can be saved today”. Yeah right. Bottom line is that they simply won’t accept any negative ‘testimony’ as being valid, they’re only interested in supporting their beliefs, and they don’t want to hear about anything that might suggest otherwise. |
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That I find it so interesting that for the most part the ones that come in with a say.....are always the same ones that don't believe it any of it in the first place. Why is that? Just an observation on my part........
The whole story of Jesus is part of the history of humanity. A person doesn't need to believe that he was God to have an opinion on the stories that were written about him. Why do religious people feel like they are the only ones who have a right to hold a view on literature that is part of human history???? To you it’s a religion. To me it’s a no different than Greek Mythology. If someone posted something about Greek Mythology I’d probably comment on that too.
Here's just a perspective: The Bible is a Chronicle of a period in the History of Humankind. Jesus was a prophet during these times, offering guidance to those who would be open to hear him. He was a Son of God, as are we. He demonstrated in miraculous ways that much more can be manifested in this Heaven (or Hell) on Earth than we can easily imagine. His actions seemed dramatic, but I believe the message was meant to be simple and Universal. I can't help but imagine that he would be saddened by such seething disagreement through the ages over something intended to be a gift. On the other hand... if these debates are part of our path, then.... it's all as it should be, isn't it? |
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Here's just a perspective: The Bible is a Chronicle of a period in the History of Humankind. Jesus was a prophet during these times, offering guidance to those who would be open to hear him. He was a Son of God, as are we. He demonstrated in miraculous ways that much more can be manifested in this Heaven (or Hell) on Earth than we can easily imagine. His actions seemed dramatic, but I believe the message was meant to be simple and Universal. I can't help but imagine that he would be saddened by such seething disagreement through the ages over something intended to be a gift. On the other hand... if these debates are part of our path, then.... it's all as it should be, isn't it? This is a very interesting perspective. And I tend to agree with the gist of your thoughts. Contrary to what many people think I’m actually very accepting of the things that Jesus taught in general. The things I have problems with are the religious beliefs surrounding the story. In other words, I can believe that Jesus was indeed divine (very close to the holy spirit) as were other prophets such as Buddha for example. In fact, I’m totally open to the idea that Jesus was a pantheist like Buddha and was simply misunderstood. The problem I have with they ‘religious’ aspect of Christianity (the religion that claims to speak for Christ) is the assertion that Jesus died to pay for our sins, etc. Now we’re entering into a whole different ballgame than just a man who taught morals. Now we have a deity who ‘paid’ for our sins. We owe this deity for his sacrifice, etc. And more to the point, if we don’t accept this so-called ‘gift’ we are condemned. From my point of view this is all demagoguery that was placed on Jesus after the face (my own personal belief). So while I can respect the man (including his divinity which we all have being that we are all children of God), I still have a problem with the organized religion that makes claims about payments made for sins, etc. It’s not that I care what other people believe. I really don’t. But when they start talking like as if Jesus is coming back and everyone who hasn’t been ‘saved’ will be viewed as his enemy, I just want to puke. I see that as nothing more than religious proselytizing. People can call it ‘sharing’ until they are blue in the face, but as long as they are making the implication that people who don’t buy into their view are rejecting God and turning against him,… well to me, that’s just plain sick. It’s basically judging everyone who doesn’t believe in their religion to be turning against God. I don’t believe that. I know that I haven’t chosen to turn against God just because I don’t believe in what I see as religious demagoguery. I think if a person is going to turn against God, they would have to knowingly make that choice. We can’t have people being condemned for making an honest choice to not believe in stories that seem farfetched and absurd. Any real God would know that this does not equate to denouncing him. Even if the scriptures are true, they must have been grossly misinterpreted (or mistranslated years ago). That’s all I can figure. I just can’t see a God who would judge people based on what religion they believe in, rather than what’s truly in their hearts. JMO
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Well I guess to start with us "Christians" don't look at the Bible as just literature........And your whole rante on the story of Jesus and a person doesn't need to believe that "he" was god to have an opinion just literally makes no sense to me.....maybe you can elaborate. I think for me I would say nothing regarding scripture except that 98% of the time you misunderstand what it is saying......and maybe for you it's ones interpretation but it really is not.....But again imo one must have faith and be open for understanding of what the Bible is and what it's purpose is. And again putting it in the same context as mythology is rude.
Because as far as I know.....it says nothing about the bible being a book of mythology. And when people reference it that way to me it's putting in on the same scale as a book of Aasops fables....which it clearly is not. 
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I will not answer or give my interpretation until all have said theres. But I will say as I made a mental note to myself. That I find it so interesting that for the most part the ones that come in with a say.....are always the same ones that don't believe it any of it in the first place. Why is that? Just an observation on my part........ Probably because most "believers" are afraid or too shy to question what they don't understand and they simply sit and wait for someone else to interpret scripture for them. We on the other hand have spent some time interpreting scripture ourselves and trying to understand it, all the while being told we are "bold" and asked "How dare we question the word of God" as if we are supposed to just accept it as it is given. JB by all means study it......but without an open heart it will never happen....for it will be like a foreign language. Matthew 13: 16-23 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." |
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BTW.
Jesus' side was pierced AFTER he was removed from the cross and already dead.
Thanks teacher wouldee.......I of course am happy to learn from an awesome teacher. And you are very correct...ty |
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........And your whole rante on the story of Jesus and a person doesn't need to believe that "he" was god to have an opinion just literally makes no sense to me.....
All you’re saying here is that it makes no sense to you why anyone would not believe that Christianity is the one true religion. I could say the same thing about pantheism. I don’t see why anyone would reject the North American Indian view of God. I personally think it makes perfect sense, and it’s even in perfect harmony with science, a status the biblical picture cannot lay claim to. maybe you can elaborate. I think for me I would say nothing regarding scripture except that 98% of the time you misunderstand what it is saying......
What’s to elaborate. The Christian interpretation of the biblical stories is that Jesus specially came to earth with the pre-planned purpose of being nailed to a cross as a sacrificial lamb to pay for our sins. That’s the bottom line of the story. I find the idea that the creator of this universe would need to do that to be absurd. Not to mention that this scenario flies in the face of the Great Flood. If this was the plan all along then Jesus would have come before the Great Flood, not afterward. The story doesn’t even make any sense in its own right (and it’s not because I don’t understand it). Moreover, your even saying that the Jews and Islam, and all other religions are wacko. Only Christians hold the key to God. I don’t know why I should be expected to believe that. Especially in light of the fact that you can’t come up with a single solidarity reason why that picture should be any more true than any other picture of God. Everything that is proclaimed to be ‘prophecy’ in the Bible can easily be explained away by anyone who’s willing to view it with an open mind (i.e. to view it from outside of it’s own stories). I mean, if you want to believe it, more power to you. Buy why you insist that it’s unreasonable for people to have an opinion on these doctrines without believing in the religious demagoguery associated with them is beyond me. That would be no different than saying that its unreasonable for anyone to believe that the Greek religions are myths. Do you even realize that when Christianity was young the Greek Gods were still being worshiped as being real? It was actually due to fierce Christian missionary work and proselytizing that the Christians were finally able to proclaim that those religions where nothing more then myths. And now they get all defensive when other people suggest the same thing is true of their beliefs. But they have no problem in denoucing all other religions as being false (which is precisely what they are doing when they suggest that Jesus was the one and only incarnation of God) 
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........And your whole rante on the story of Jesus and a person doesn't need to believe that "he" was god to have an opinion just literally makes no sense to me.....
Answer: This is what I was referring to elaborate on... All you’re saying here is that it makes no sense to you why anyone would not believe that Christianity is the one true religion. I could say the same thing about pantheism. I don’t see why anyone would reject the North American Indian view of God. I personally think it makes perfect sense, and it’s even in perfect harmony with science, a status the biblical picture cannot lay claim to. maybe you can elaborate. I think for me I would say nothing regarding scripture except that 98% of the time you misunderstand what it is saying......
Answer: Abra you never listen when I say things do you.....I don't care about religion......that is man made.....I care about God, Christ, and the infallible word of God...... What’s to elaborate. The Christian interpretation of the biblical stories is that Jesus specially came to earth with the pre-planned purpose of being nailed to a cross as a sacrificial lamb to pay for our sins. That’s the bottom line of the story. I find the idea that the creator of this universe would need to do that to be absurd. Not to mention that this scenario flies in the face of the Great Flood. If this was the plan all along then Jesus would have come before the Great Flood, not afterward. The story doesn’t even make any sense in its own right (and it’s not because I don’t understand it). Answer: It doesn't to you.....makes perfect sense to me. Moreover, your even saying that the Jews and Islam, and all other religions are wacko. Only Christians hold the key to God. Answer: Again abra....don't care what religion you are. I don’t know why I should be expected to believe that. Especially in light of the fact that you can’t come up with a single solidarity reason why that picture should be any more true than any other picture of God. Everything that is proclaimed to be ‘prophecy’ in the Bible can easily be explained away by anyone who’s willing to view it with an open mind (i.e. to view it from outside of it’s own stories). Answer: I have time after time given you a chance to do just this....but somehow you just pass it up.....or ignore....why is that? I mean, if you want to believe it, more power to you. Buy why you insist that it’s unreasonable for people to have an opinion on these doctrines without believing in the religious demagoguery associated with them is beyond me. Answer: Because I can't give you an opinion when you clearly don't understand what it says.... That would be no different than saying that its unreasonable for anyone to believe that the Greek religions are myths. Do you even realize that when Christianity was young the Greek Gods were still being worshiped as being real? It was actually due to fierce Christian missionary work and proselytizing that the Christians were finally able to proclaim that those religions where nothing more then myths. And now they get all defensive when other people suggest the same thing is true of their beliefs. Answer: Greek Orthodox is the only one.......all others are clearly stated as myths......big difference. But they have no problem in denoucing all other religions as being false (which is precisely what they are doing when they suggest that Jesus was the one and only incarnation of God)
Answer: And yes that is exactly what I am saying.....That Jesus was the ONE AND ONLY SON OF GOD. And when revelations 1:7 comes to pass.....it will be interesting....is all I will say. |
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Answer: Again abra....don't care what religion you are. Answer: And yes that is exactly what I am saying.....That Jesus was the ONE AND ONLY SON OF GOD. Yeah right,… I don’t care what religion you are, as long as you believe that Jesus Christ is the one and only son of God and he died for you sins to pay for your salivation. 
Duh? Excuse me, but that’s a religious belief called “Christianity” And moreover, what accompanies that belief is that we also believe that the entire Bible is the word of God. That necessarily follows because Jesus would be nothing if he wasn’t standing on the shoulders of the God of Abraham. Jesus is nothing by himself. Or to put that another way, without the Old Testament Jesus is reduced to just another Buddha can can’t possible have been the one and only son of God. If Jesus could be separated from the dogma of the Old Testament I might become a Jesus freak myself. But to separate him from the Old Testament also means to forfeit the idea that he died for our sins as a sacrificial lamb. The only way he can be taken off the shoulders of the God of Abraham to stand on his own two feet is to reduce him to a mere moral man who may have been very close to the Holy Spirit like Buddha. You can’t tell me that you don’t care what religion I am as long as I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. That just doesn’t wash. It required the entire dogma and recognizing that the entire Bible is the word of God. It requires believing in a religion called “Christianity” and all the traditions and rituals that go with that religion. I’m more than willing to accept Jesus as a Pantheist. In fact, I already do that. But that doesn’t mean that he died for my sins. To me that was just unnecessary demagoguery that was tacked on after the fact. No need to believe he was born of a virgin, or rose from the dead, or died for my sins. Just accept his moral teachings which are almost identical to the teachings of Buddha and others, the 12 laws of karma. http://thejourneyinward.net/karma/karmalaws.html Yes, I already accept Jesus on that level. |
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