Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense (Alvin Plantinga, God and Other Minds- A Study of Rational Justification of Belief in God. (Ithica, NY: Cornell University Press, 1967)

1. Free will is of moral value. That is, a world with free will is better than one without it.
2. It is a contradiction to say that God brings it about that humans freely will only the good { vs J.S. Findlay who claims that this is possilbe}
3. God must bring about the best possible world in his capacity.
4. Therefore, God must create a world with free will.[We believe the word "must" is objectionable here, but the point still stands. Instead read "God is correct to create..." ]
5. But then God is not responsible for evil (choices), since it is not in his power to bring it about that men freely choose only the good. [note: this assumes that God cannot, and need not, do the logically contradictory. If logic does not apply to God, then there is nothing wrong with asserting the apparent contradiction that God is good and He permits evil to exist. Where there is no logic, there are not any contradictions . . . and anything could be the case!]

God can and will get rid of evil in the future. God will bring about a greater good through evil.


God cannot do anything. For instance the bible says God cannot swear by a name greater than himself. God cannot make a square circle. God cannot make a free human being love him with out violating his free will. God can do anything power can do.

I agree

Have you investigated the resurrection?

I am 100% sure I am right, but there is still possibility that I am wrong.

You know that I am wrong? You made a positive assertion. How do you know that I am wrong?

Actually Mark is believed to be written down first. It is believed by scholarship that the other disciples took bits and pieces from Mark.

Actually Mark is believed to be written down first. It is believed by scholarship that the other disciples took bits and pieces from Mark.

I am born again.

I am not meeting in the middle. I am 100% sure I am right. But there is still a chance I am wrong. If Christianity is not true I am done with it. My faith has only grown through the years as I study the truths of scripture.

God is love. Hell is the abscence of love, everything good, and everything that is called God. Hate will consume.

You bow your knee and say Lord your will be done, or turn your back on him and say thy will be done. Separation.

You deny him now and He will deny you later.

This is where the free will argument comes into play. God allows murder to take place for a certain amount of time to bring about a greater good. Justice will eventually be paid by God to all who diobey him. For the Christian Justice was paid for on the Cross, through faith in him. This may be the best of all possible worlds given the existence of free will.

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I am very careful Morningsong, I grew up in a church that went verse by verse through the bible. The Catholic Church teaches the bible, and I like how they hold tight to tradition. I feel it was the Spirit of God who gave me the final word. I have prayed about it and meditated on it.

Christ already knew these things would take place, He didnt have to call God on anything.

I thought that might be where you were going. You must be careful not to lay at the feet of Christ the terrible atrocities of the Past. "My kingdom is not of this world that men should fight", here Christ clearly condemns fighting for him. Christ taught us to turn the other cheek. When Peter caught off the guards ear, Jesus turned to Peter and rebuked him, then Jesus healed the guard. You never judge a philosophy by it abuse. These atrocities were not a fair representation of Christianity.

Try to ask clear questions.

Let me first ask you a question to clarify what you are saying. What millions of murders is Christ responsible for.


Christ was always in perfect fellowship with the father untill the very moments before his death.

I understand. I am born again. The denomination i belonged to was Calvary Chapel. I am now joining the Catholic faith.

No for instance:


"1. Jesus’ burial is multiply attested in early, independent sources.

We have four biographies of Jesus, by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, which have been
collected into the New Testament, along with various letters of the apostle Paul. Now the burial
account is part of Mark’s source material for the story of Jesus’ suffering and death. This is a
very early source which is probably based on eyewitness testimony and which the commentator
Rudolf Pesch dates to within seven years of the crucifixion. Moreover, Paul also cites an
extremely early source for Jesus’ burial which most scholars date to within five years of Jesus’
crucifixion. Independent testimony to Jesus’ burial by Joseph is also found in the sources behind
Matthew and Luke and the Gospel of John, not to mention the extra-biblical Gospel of Peter.
Thus, we have the remarkable number of at least five independent sources for Jesus’ burial, some
of which are extraordinarily early.

2. As a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin that condemned Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea is unlikely
to be a Christian invention.

There was an understandable hostility in the early church toward the Jewish leaders. In Christian
eyes, they had engineered a judicial murder of Jesus. Thus, according to the late New Testament
scholar Raymond Brown, Jesus’ burial by Joseph is “very probable,” since it is “almost
inexplicable” why Christians would make up a story about a Jewish Sanhedrist who does what is
right by Jesus.1

For these and other reasons, most New Testament critics concur that Jesus was buried by Joseph
of Arimathea in a tomb. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the
burial of Jesus in the tomb is “one of the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus."


"This doesn’t mean that there aren’t sources outside the Bible which refer to Jesus. There are. He’s referred to in pagan, Jewish, and Christian writings outside the New Testament. The Jewish historian Josephus is especially interesting. In the pages of his works you can read about New Testament people like the high priests Annas and Caiaphas, the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, King Herod, John the Baptist, even Jesus himself and his brother James. There have also been interesting archaeological discoveries as well bearing on the gospels. For example, in 1961 the first archaeological evidence concerning Pilate was unearthed in the town of Caesarea; it was an inscription of a dedication bearing Pilate’s name and title. Even more recently, in 1990 the actual tomb of Caiaphas, the high priest who presided over Jesus’s trial, was discovered south of Jerusalem. Indeed, the tomb beneath the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem is in all probability the tomb in which Jesus himself was laid by Joseph of Arimathea following the crucifixion."

The question is what is true concerning these issues.

I enjoy debate, and sharing my faith.

It is possible i am wrong.
if I am right?
It means everything.