I'm especially interested to hear more about 'Zoraster' and the faith
that emerged from it. I know bits and peices, but, not enough to be able
to discuss it intelligently. Bonus points if someone can explain the Led
Zepplin tie-in.

Hey, there was a great response to my posting, and there were great
ideas mentioned: Zoaraster (sp?), Buddism, Taoism, Wiccan and so on.
Please tell us what the major themes of your faith is (you know cover
the basics: whats "good", whats "evil", why do they exist, whats the
meaning of life, is there an 'after life' etc). Give us some taste of
what it means for you, and how it affects your view of the world. Give
us the brochure!

As a side note: I didnt care for the "you're wrong/I'm right" taste that
some posts had. So, I'm starting a new one, because I want to hear what
the "great ideas" of other religons are. So feel free to add other
supporting info to a post, but, unless there is a gross error, dont
contradict someone else in this thread.

Wikipedia is "open source" in the truest sense of the word. The content
is totally open to anyone to edit (as was pointed out). I've updated
articles (PT Boats), and got good feedback. I'm often impressed with how
timely and how detailed articles can be. Far more detailed and linked
than say a stale encyclopedia set.

Further, I would say that the traditional encyclopedia sets are FAR MORE
subject to censorship, spin, and white-washing. I would say that the
wikipedia materials represent a good averaging of the range of thoughts
on a topic. And for those topics that are the subject of
political/social concern aren't worth the time to read wether they be on
the web or in print - because they're highly charged anyway.

Wikipedia also had the distintion of being the first accessible
"authoritative sources" of the new Pope - articles were published within
minutes of his papacy.

For those of you just tuning in, I decided to take Improv classes, and
last weeks post mentioned how suprised I was that its a "team" sport -
you really have to rely on your team mates to give/pass lines in a way
that works as a team. Room is filled with 15+ ppl, aged 25 - 45, various
walks of life. Slight majority female.

This week was like being in grade school. For highlights: we did silly
games like "follow me". The game goes like this: A team of 4 stands up
and is given some idea to mime. Person 1 does some mime action. The next
person repeates it, and adds to it. And so on. Sounds silly, but it was
fun, and it drove home the point that you gotta pay attention, have to
interpret and build on what the prev ppl did.

After that silliness, we did "circle time clapping". You clap, turn to
the person on the right, and synchronize a clap. They turn and do the
same. Damn was it tough to get 'syncd'. The purpose was to learn to
follow the lead, and give a lead.

Lastly, we did "Yes And...". The toughest of the night. Pairs of ppl
take the stage. Person #1 gives a phrase "We are going shopping". Person
#2 has to repeat the phrase, tack on "...and, " plus their own phrase.
Now #1 repeates this phrase plus tacks on their own. This repeats for
5min. Oh, and you can never contradict, or question, the phrase given to
you. It was hysterical because things just went off into complete
silliness, and it was really hard because your first inclination is to
"object", but the lesson is to learn to accept what was given and work
with it "as-is".

This board is heavily weighted with Christian themes. Understandably so
as most ppl are pro/anti christian. Is there anyone with a different
faith? Buddist? Hindu? Jewish? Post here, share thoughts - start
threads. Help us all learn a little bit about how you see the world.

ok, just to be different: I would say that Jesus DID discriminate.

How so? For one he clearly focused his parables and teachings to his
audience differently, with different intentions and implications. For
example, the story of the good Samaritan. The "Samaritans" were a set of
"second class jewry", so for his parable to be effective he made use of
the class-discrimination to make his point. His point wasnt so much the
injustice of discrimination as it was the come-uppence to the "proper
jewry".

Look at his statement "Give unto Ceasar". This wasnt a wishy-washy
evasive answer about taxation. It was considered blashphemy to have any
human-likeness appear in and around the Temple. Ceasar's image was on
the coin - Jesus was calling for a rejection of all things Roman, he was
calling for a revolution against the Italians. Dont think so? What did
he do in the market place?

He had a sassy discussion with the samaritan woman at the well. He says
"Get me a drink woman", and they go on with a sassy exchange. He was
talking down to her - making her aware of her 2nd class status.

Sure, Jesus hung out with prostitutes and the like. But not Gentiles.

So yeah, I would say that discrimination was clearly present.

I would say that its pretty clear that the political minds of the time
thought/acted/assumed that any euro-westernized country was a
christian-protectorate. That is to say a country with judeo-christian
fundamentals to its legal system, without specifically recognizing a
religon for its civil systems.

John Jay wrote his thoughts and legal opinions around these points, and
his points are backed up by the usual-suspect "Founding Fathers".

I would say there is nothing wrong with a theologically based civil
govt. So long as its not IDEALOGICALLY based, which, a theology govt
usually becomes.

How about the "lack of response" ppl? You send them a polite email
relevant to their profile (say they happen to like cooking Italian ),
and no reply at all.

That bugs me.

Interestingly, the 3rd carrier group is due to arrive on station in the
Persian Gulf within the next 2 weeks - officially to "releive" the
Eisenhower.

Also, please dont post a full length cut & paste of a web page.
Summarize it for us, give quotes and comments, and the URL, but not the
whole thing plz.

My neighbor Dave is a big NJ Devil fan. I'm a NY Rangers fan. The
Rangers have been terrible the last several years, a point that Dave
loves to rub in my face. As often as he can. This year the Rangers are
doing pretty well, and have made it to the playoffs. I went to one of
the playoff games and the stadium was giving out these mini-posters of
"Lets Go Rangers!". After the game there was a pile of extras - maybe a
dozen or so.

SO.... what would you do?

Since I was out late the previous night, I decided to take the day off.
Dave goes to work very early - 5am or so. I wanted to enjoy the Rangers
Victory. Enjoy my pile of "Lets Go Ranger" posters. At my lesiure I
taped one of the "Lets Go Rangers" posters to his window. Each of his
windows. All of his windows - front, and back.

He usually gets home at 4pm. I made sure to be outside waiting for him.
Oh the reaction was PRICELESS. In his thick, North-Jersey Accent (yes,
thats a very Saprano's sounding dialect), he foamed vile insults and
threats to the Rangers and all of their kin, he was raging with
laughter. "...paybacks Mikey! Just you wait! I'll get you!"

Bring it on Davey. Bring it on - this is what "Playoff Hockey" is all
about.

I work at a small computer company, the building is in a typical "light
industrial park". The building itself is corporate dull. The offices are
industrial-ugly, in the most non-offensive shade of beige. Its medically
sterile. We do our best to conform to this "business blandedness" by
trying to be extra polite in our wording, trying not to smirk at
likely-inuendo during somebody's presentation. But every once in awhile,
somebody breaks protocol.

I'm in the mens room going about my business and my boss walks into the
mens room. Offended by the odor, he promptly leaves. A couple minutes
later, he returns, and just as quickly exits. This goes on for a few
minutes. Eventually, I complete my business and go back to my cubicle of
efficiency. Before I had got to my desk he sent me an email: "Hey
Stinkey: What the hell did you eat? You should ho see a doctor!" then,
he sent out an email to everyone:

New Bathroom Procedures

Due to the rude behavior of one of our fellow employees, the following
policy will be enforced. Take note that it is now encumbant upon all
employees to issue one courtesy-flush for every 5 minutes of toilet
usage. All persons using the toilet will be required to sign in, and
sign-out giving the time of usage, and attest to the number of
courtesy-flushes given. Failure to comply with these policies will
result in your termination.

-J. Donovan

The off-color and obnoxious email was well received and we had a good
round of snickering. It made for a good Friday.

Wow. I am surprised by the replies. I don't fault anyone for being
scared sh1tless, I would have peed my pants. I might even have been
paralyzed with fear.

I am bothered by the overall sense that we are, as a people, "helpless"
to nut cases like this. If only 1 person had tangled with him, if only 1
person had lunged at him, then he couldnt have killed 30+ people. He
killed 30 ppl in cold blood - probably most were begging for their
lives. And yet, nobody else could think beyond themselves to really do
something.

Until we take individual responsibility to "do all that we can" when
faced with a true "Life or Death" situation, then more heinous acts like
this will happen - more frequently, more deadly.

Seems like a simple question. But, now that you're an adult, why do you
hold to your particular faith? Whats made it "un-deniable" for you?

I was asked that question by a muslim in Pakistan who was trying to
convert me to Islam. We debated round and round on this one for a couple
days. His point, which he was pretty effective on, was that we often
simply assume our faith is the "correct one" because "someone told us it
was correct". And if we question the source of our faith, we may find
that we dont have much of a faith in the first place.

Anyway, I thought it was a very thought provoking question, and I'd like
to hear other ppl's thoughts. [In the end, my answer to him was "I am
christian because that is how I was called, and that is how I choose to
respond" - he found that acceptable enough for him to declare the
'conversion debate' a truce]

killxherxoff,

"none of this could've been prevented.
not if someone stood in the way,
not if no one tried to stop it."

Absolutely this could have been prevented. Thats my point, if I were
there I woulda rushed teh guy. Even if it meant me being shot, he woulda
been knocked down. Other ppl could have jumped on him once I knocked him
down. It was directly preventable. I could have done it, you could have
done it (but I dont think you would have).

I wanted to add, that "yeah sure animals will nurture their own young,
and maybe sorta look out for a sickly member", but, only a human will go
create medicine, collect foods and see to the well being of a sickly
human who is un-known. Think of Doctors, Nurses, Clinicians, etc.

The ability to communicate ideas, emotions, and express them without the
physical need for interacation sets us way apart. What I mean by that is
we can communicate our thoughts between each other (like email) without
ever actually knowing, seeing, hearing the other person. We can even
communicate with ppl yet to be born (we can write a book that will be
read 100s of years later).

So, we're "top dog" so to speak. We have unlimited potential, for good
and bad.

Until some other creature shows capacity for selfless nuturing,
compassion for illness, the ability to record thoughts and expressions
for later generations, and the ability to develop efficient means of
mass murder, I'd say that humans remain top of the pile.

All day I've been hearing "experts" give "insight" into what went wrong
at VA-Tech. All sorts of blame pointing - at the school administration,
police, gun-laws, at psychologists... Everyone wants to blame someone in
"authority" - someone "should have known", "the signs were all there,
someone failed". Then I hear the usual empty statement "... he was a
cold blooded murderer, a coward". At that moment the two statements
came together.

Who failed? You and I failed.

In the sense, that nobody, NOBODY got up to take this guy down on his
rampage. Everyone was, understandably, hiding for their very lives. But,
in the course of 2 hours, 30+ ppl died, and nobody stopped this guy. How
can a campus filled with hundreds of ppl, NOT have a single person who
would rush this guy, even if it meant dying in the process?

Why? Because we are a nation of selfish cowards. Understandably, nobody
wanted to die being a hero, but, selfishly, and cruely, everyone thought
that their lives were more valuable than someone elses. How else can you
explain the failure to act - THIRTY+ ppl had to die, and out of the
campus with hundreds of ppl directly involved, nobody stopped him? He
even had time to go mail a letter. Reload his guns. Check out the
campus. Walk around some. Still, nobody acted. Sure, LOTS of ppl called
the police, but at some level its a deflection of responsibility to act.

Yes, let me say it directly. If you (a complete stranger to me), and I
were in a room, and a gunman came into the room, I'm gonna hide. I'm
gonna cower. I'm gonna save my skin. And I'm going to do what I can to
save YOUR life too. And when the moment is available, I'm going to rush
the guy, and if I get shot doing it, at least YOU will have the chance
to finish the rush. At least YOU will have 1 less bullet to worry about.
I only hope and pray, that if I'm in such a situation, that more than
one person thinks like me - and that mindset will save dozens of other
potential killings. Isnt it better that me & a like-minded person take
the bullet and end the gunman, rather than letting him rampage for 30+
more killings? Who is with me? Who values their neighbor's life as much
as their own?

This is precisely the reason why 9/11 succeeded - not enough ppl stood
up to this. Same thing with that nutcase in the Utah shopping mall last
x-mas... [Incidently, all 3 involved muslims] Over and over, these
gunmen succeed because everyone thinks that THEIR own life is more
valuable than any potential strangers - they feel its better to let
someone else take the risk.

The failure to act, is a kind of implicit-complicity to the crime.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"
Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

</rant>

This video shows a really *simple* way to 'steal' a flame from a zippo
lighter, and "snap" it back into the lighter. Worth seeing:

http://www.instructables.com/id/EL1N4UX0DOEWZMJHU1

I'm going to try this one on the kids and see how they react

"Purity Balls?"

Whats that? Are they blue? What happens when you lose your marbles?

Adam isnt the father of us all. According to the Bible lots of people
were created before Adam. Adam is the FIRST MAN that God revealed
himself to.

Even if you dont agree that Gensis Chapter 1 & 2 preceed Adam, then look
at Cain's words when he got caught murdering "I'll be banished, I'll be
miserable, ppl will kill me..." And he got special dispensation from
God, "Nobody will touch you..." and he went off into the other lands and
married. Clearly, intentionally, undoubtdely, there were other ppl!