In another topic, someone posted this:

Sat 04/21/07 05:24 PM
Like it or not, our laws are based on the ten commandments. Also, people
seem to forget that this country was founded on christian morals and
beliefs.

What do you think of this statement, is it true? Do you think that the
"Christian" beliefs are threaded thoughout our laws, our political
'creed'?

hell no i'm a christian don't get me wrong but i'm sorry this country
was founded on freedom of everything freedom of religion freedom o f
alot of things and thats how it was founded this christian stuff i don't
believe is true sorry no disrespect to jesus and i'm baptist so yea

why not post something of your own?
i'm sur you could have put it in better detail

Thanks red nice topic.

I for one hope there are more to christian morals than some of the ways
this country was founded.


Witch hunts.
masskillings in the indian lands.
slavery (Yeah I know it was corrected but...it happened).
Bigotry (not just against one race either... I am irish my race seen
some O' that)(and dished some out)
Deliberate near extinction of the buffalo for profit.

Shall I go on.

As much as I hate to say it America is based on Christian beliefs. Even
in the Pledge of Allegiance it specifically says "One nation under God".
Politics and religion are supposed to be seperate, but people somehow
managed to f*** that up. Nice job, America -_-

JCYCO - Red is doing something I wish people would do more often - split
the conversation rather than have too many concurrent conversations.
This comment is worthy of its own discussion.

Xnadinix - as I understand it, the word "God" was added to the pledge
somewhat recently, due to the political climate at the time - it was not
originally in the pledge.

I'm seriously worried about the
future of this country.

It is no longer 'We the People'.

Politicians are bought and sold
by corporations and special interests
and don't serve their constituents anymore.

We need to go back to
the fundamentals.

This country will never be perfect,
but if we are to be the example of
freedom in the world we have to
do a lot better.

Yeah. "Under God", if I recall, was post WW2.


But our society was definately founded on Christian values- along with
a healthy dose of paranoia about powerful governments and fascism.


Oh- and NOWHERE in the constitution or governing principles of this
nation has it EVER said "separation of church and state". READ the
constitution- you won't find it. None of our founding fathers ever even
made a passing comment to that sence.

Otherwise, it would have been illegal for those who hold religious
offices to run for political ones. Which, of course, it's not. If the
Pope was born in the United States, he could become president.... if
enough people would vote for him. Which is another debate entirely.

this country WAS founded on bible brincipals, not necessassarily
christian but biblical laws and guidance. the farther we get away from
these principals the more we devolve into chaos. this should be no big
suprise to bible students, who know that the entire old testament is the
story of civilizations who build a bibklical government, then later fall
away and are destroyed. why do some fear morals anyway? mabe its because
they dont have any.

May I ask a question, please? it is one I ask of my own country, as
well, so feel it is appropriate to the topic...


Could someone please explain founded??

To me, there is arrogance attached to the term...'founded', as if it was
lost, unchartered, created...empty..vacant.

Australia was not 'vacant', nor was America, upon white/european
settlers arriving to the shores of these countries...

There were already peaceful co-existance with the lay of the land, and
the flora and fauna of these countries by indigenous
civilisations....whether there was agression within the tribes, clans,
etc, or not.

In my opinion, these countries were not 'founded', as such, but invaded,
taken over, ridden rough shod over the existing cultures...and for that
I feel shame, not pride in the 'founding' of my country..

I am interested to hear others opinions on the term 'founded', and what
the implications of that are...

For me to go forward, I have to understand from whence I came, as a
race, as a person, as a contributer to this country...

ever build a house? it has a fundation, or is founded in the ground. the
founding fathers are the ones who put thier personal safety and fortunes
aside to build a better more people friendly government. nothing
arrogant about it really. thier product was not perfect, but it is damn
good compared to the other countrys of the world. for the first time the
people had a voice in government... well some people anyway... every
country was founded in some way or it wouldent exist.

Actually I think the british empire was cuttin into their profits so
they eliminated that.

If you look at the financial history I am sure you won't find much
evidence of poverty amoung those who were instrumental in making 1776
happen.

"Founded" means "established". The Americas, as Australia, were here
long before the nations that most readily use the names. Or, for that
matter, the evolution of us humans who would later name them.


But "The United States of America"- THAT was "founded" only a couple
hundred years ago. Fledgeling as far as nations go. Australia- I'm not
so sure on. Is "Australia" the actual name, or is it like "America" and
just uses a shortening of the complete thing.

Thankyou Rambill,

Foundation...a foundation of agreed behaviours, of the new society, that
was within the new country..is that what you mean?

So foundation laws, the "anchoring" as such, to the society, through
codes of conduct, or behaviours?

Jess, certainly agree with what you are saying.

My bad, I could have explained better, but for the purpose of this
discussion I was referring to the creation of our democratic society,
which includes all those documents relating to the democratic political
procedure and, specifically for this topic, all the laws that have been
carried on amended and continued in one form or another to this day.

Australia, is known as Australia, from Terres Australis, on maps from
the Sixteen Hundreds by the Dutch, who mapped the west coast of
Australia..

It is known and named as Australia.

Maybe, instead of requesting only opinion we should include those words,
passages or inferrences within our laws or political structure, that we
think include or are in nature relevant to a religious conviction.

Please let's not revisit the Pledge, let's look for other specifics.
Anyone?

I have forgotten where I'am. Jess, and any other country represented in
JSH, my apologies. I would love to get a broader view of the world too.
In any other countries, have you or do you know of any laws of a
religious nature in your own countries?

This could be a very interesting and infomative comparison.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident....
"That all men are ****CREATED**** equal


That's your starter- hello preamble.

Poet, fabulous. I have been so accustomed to these words that it never
even crossed my mind to view them this way. We really are trained from
childhood.