Awwwwweee... c'mon, keep in mind nobody ever accused liberals/democrats of having class... just class envy. Look how long it took them to get over the 2000 election... uhhhh scratch that... some still haven't and never will.

While you have my sympathy and total respect for making an effort to assist family members, you (or your family members) still aren't entitled to one cent of my paycheck (which I earned). Contrary to popular belief it's not what is mine is yours and what is yours is yours. In reading your situation (the parts that you shared), I can confidently say that you and family members are not exploring ALL your options (that do NOT require government assistance)and will spare you my "pie in the sky" advice as per your wishes. Obvious is one thing- you aren't doing ALL you can do for them if you own a computer and have time to post here. While I support, endorse, and encouage people to donate to charities that have the means- I believe this should be a CHOICE. Think of it in terms of the classical female abortion argument, in this case instead of being the body, it being my money. Your antagonistic comments makes me even less likely to donate in the future that's for sure. What you are asking, nay, demanding or feel entitled to (at my expense) for in a "little help" in all reality is not "little" and the help will NEVER be enough. (Side question) What's the illegitimate birthrate percentage of those receiving "a little help" again? Yes, I know or have a good idea what things cost (E.G. Hospital bills, rent, and every other question you asked)... I'm not a millionaire, yet.

I believe for the mostpart people as a whole are rarely a "victims of circumstance" (once again aside from genetic/physical limited dispositions), they are a product of their own poor choices and decisions. Even some with physical disabilities are a result of their own poor choices and decisions (smoking perhaps)? I will agree, people like your mentally hanidcapped brother and late Terri Schiavo require assistance and protection by society; However, those individuals are in the VAST minority. There are many excuses, very few reasons.

Some may perceive my comments as selfish and harsh. I would submit that it's quite the other way around. Allow me to put it into perspective from my standpoint. If President Obama and the democratic controlled congress start raising taxes (as promised... giving me NO CHOICE) on those who achieve or strive to achieve more (to give a little more help to the "needy"), I will be forced to close my business and subsequently let go of several employees. In a way, I welcome this. No longer will I have to put in long, struggling hours (that takes a toll on my health and well-being). I won't have to deal with employee paperwork for the government. Have the government pay for certain surgeries I've been having to put off (believe it or not I qualify for disability benefits too if I didn't work). Oh, I suppose I could have my products manufactured in Mexico or China still but why bother, I still have to deal with the headaches of paperwork. Realistically, I don't ever have to accept personal responsibility for my life ever again. Nothing like medioctrity and spreading the misery to bring out the best in all of us.

Just think, your vote (and all those who voted for Obama/liberal, socialist democrats) are going allow to me (and perhaps my soon to be former employees) to join the illustrious ranks/status of your mother. Thank you for proving how true the motto of "If you can't beat em, my's well join em" is and the futility of my efforts to strive for the better things in life. To show I'm at least thankful, I'll be sure to mail George Clooney a thank you letter for supporting me.

In your case, I'm not quite sure I would grant a divorce. It's my understanding of liberals, they claim to be "open minded" individuals, accepting, tolerant, and non-judgemental of others. Your use of the judgemental word "prejudice" may disqualify you as a liberal as defined.

Shoo shoo, scat... it's people like you that pulled me into the political forums to begin with

In the arena in regards to politics to republicans/democrats I would completely agree with you in there being no significant difference. The "divorce" lies in the differences of core beliefs. Recently (I would say as far back as the end of Johnson administration) liberals have sided with democrats, conservatives republicans (starting with Nixon and the silent majority). At one time republicans were considered todays version of liberals. If you persuse history, it was democrats who supported slavery and against civil rights legislation (Al Gore, Sr. among them). The roles used to reverse every so often. JFK's speeches on economic/fiscal matters, could easily pass for todays conservative views.

I firmly believe the cultural divide to vast for any meaningful reconcilliation, too little in common to build upon. Realists understand they can't/shouldn't depend or rely on their government for anything... especially social security, the biggest ponzi scheme ever perpetrated.

What did people do before there was SS? They worked until they couldn't anymore, family and friends took care of family and friends. I believe the social welfare entitlement programs have destroyed the family anyway... government assuming the role of mother, father, caregiver. What is preventing you from taking your mother in, taking care of her, helping her?

Winx- "Many people work hard and even harder then that straight A girl. They many never see those A's no matter how hard they try. Should they starve or not get medical care because of that? NO"

I submit neither one of knows what a person is capable of if allowed to sink or swim on their own merits (genetic /physical handicaps aside). I'm curious to know at what point to you assign personal responsibility for allowing people to fend for themselves?

I recall a "rest of the story" Paul Harvey radio program. (my paraphrased recollection) A widower left his two children (one I believe was 12 year old boy the other younger and a girl) at home alone for two years on the family farm in KY to go out and look for a wife. Basically abandoning them. They had no electricity or telephone to call for help in case of an emergency. I don't recall if they were able or did attend school. (my insert) I suppose they faced many hardships like cold winters, potential starvation, medical emergencies, anything you can imagine). Two years later the father returns (I don't recall if he found a wife or not). The now 14 year old boy and his sister were fine. That boy turned out to be the 16th president of the US... Abraham Lincoln.

Take away a kids X-box or cell phone today, you run the risk of having DCFS being called... let alone leaving them to fend for themselves for more than a day.

If I recall correctly Lynann, t'was not it you who provided a quote by Mark Twain... along the lines of "lies, damn lies, and statistics" in another thread? OOPs

Lovely shade of selective hypocrisy you're wearing today

I may like greasy, deep fat fried pork sandwiches smothered in cheese, that doesn't mean they're good for me in the long run.

The other choice? I don't know about the ballots there in your neck of the woods, ours provide a plethora of choices, including the option for writing in someone not even on the ballot.

Impressive posts here. All this symbolic adoration, the masses in a frenzy for Obama. Screaming "hope" and "change" for a new nation! The people have spoken! The only comparison I can think of that rivals all this hype was in the 1930's in Germany.

In all actuality, the Obama campaign and people who support him remind me more of a "Sham-Wow" infomerical than anything. Obama being "Vince" of course. "Hey, you know us socialist/marxist liberals, we do all the things that make you feel good" (except the "special offer" will last more than "all day"). Cut to first guy-"If you want further redistribution of wealth, more government, you'd be nuts not to support him". Go to obese woman-"Oh my G-d, I couldn't live without him". Cut to next woman at an Obama rally- "I don't need to waste time working when Obama will pay for my mortgage and gas for my car". All I can say is "Scam-Wowwwww".

Enjoy the moment, for this too shall pass and reality will set in.

"In October of 1964, party insiders fed up with what they perceived as poor judgment by Soviet Premiere Nikita Kruschev in the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Chinese Cold War and an economic collapse, oust him from office. His replacement, Leonid Brezhnev, comes into the Kremlin for a final meeting with him before taking power. Kruschev picks up three sealed envelopes and says “My friend, when I found out my job here was over I sat down and wrote three letters. They are numbered one, two and three. I will put them in the top drawer of what will now be your desk.”

“What are they for?” Brezhnev asks.

Kruschev smile wryly. “A day will come when you and the Motherland will be in grave trouble. And after you have exhausted all options and it appears nothing will save you I want you to open this first letter, do what it says, and you will be saved.”

“And the second letter?” Brezhnev asks.

“The second crisis.” Kruschev says. “And so on.”

Brezhnev thanks his predecessor, sits down at the desk and promptly forgets the whole exchange. But a few years later he finds himself embroiled in a deep crisis from which he can see no way out. Then he remembers the letters and opens the first one. It says:

“BLAME ME.”

Brezhnev blames Kruschev and it works. The crisis passes.

A few more years go by and another crisis hits. This time Brezhnev is not worried because he knows he has two letters left. He opens the second. It says:

“BLAME AMERICA.”

He blames America and it works. The crisis passes.

A few years after that a third crisis hits, but again Brezhnev’s not worried because he has one last letter. He opens it. It says:

“SIT DOWN AND WRITE THREE LETTERS…”"

(http://constitutionclub.wordpress.com/2008/page/3/)

I just foresee slight differences.

First letter for Obama- Blame Bush
Second letter- Blame America
Third letter- Blame Bush and America

I've been looking for a "story" I heard on the radio a while back. I can't recall it verbatum and haven't been able to find a source for it online yet. It goes along theses lines though and believe this would it a nice addition to this thread.

A liberal college girl comes home on break and is having a conversation with her conservative dad. She was carrying on about all the inequalities of life and how we should all give more. The dad patiently listens. He changes the topic and asks about her grades. She beams with pride while conveying having received all "A's". He asks if everyone in the class is getting high marks as well. She starts complaining that her lab partner or one of her classmates never studies, is never prepared, wants to party all the time, and is failing the class. The father replies "if life is unfair and we should all give more", he suggests that she should donate part of her grade to the failing student to help her out. Her reply was to the effect of "Why should I? I earned that grade".

I too was wondering if that piece was stolen or "sampled", Hence, the disclaimer. Being the voracious reseacher of "facts" you are, would/could you please cite the "original" piece please then? Since you are the one claiming it's not original.

"A stolen piece that is asinine, badly re-written, small minded and only marginally entertaining". Where have I heard that before? Oh, sounds like words regurgitated from any number people critical of today's entertainment industry.

I don't see the word "Republican" mentioned anywhere in the "divorce letter".

"The dynasties of the upper class, who will still be flexing their muscle, I'm sure, had better watch out".

Now, now, threatening those of the upper class (including elitist socialists like Ted Kennedy)isn't going to make for peaceful divorce. Don't you fret, I believe Obama (if he stands by ALL his campaign promises) will try to deliver you to the promise land and a "New Day".

The below comment appeared in a local newspaper comments section in regards to an editor's "Our View" opinion piece ("Our View: George W. Bush's legacy, for better and (mostly) worse") earlier today.

http://www.pjstar.com/opinions/x1881638821/Our-View-George-W-Bushs-legacy-for-better-and-mostly-worse - the article itself.

I don't know if the poster/commentor was the original creator of this letter or not; However, aside from reflecting many of my own personal views... this really put things into perspective.



"Sorry but I just couldn't resist, But I am gamed if you guys are???

Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists, Obama supporters, et al:

We have stuck together since the late 1950's, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has run its course. Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile, slate it up to irreconcilable differences, and go our own ways.

Here is a model dissolution agreement:

Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a portion. That will be the
difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes. To wit:

We don't like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are also welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.

Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, Rosie O'Donnell and The View (you are however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move them).

We'll keep the capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street. You can have your beloved homeless, homeboys, hippies, and illegal aliens. We'll keep the hot Alaskan Hockey Moms, greedy CEO's, and Rednecks. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .

You can make nice with Iran, Palestine, and France, and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protestors. When our allies or way of life are under assault, we'll provide them job security.

We'll keep our Judeo-Christian Values. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, and Shirley McClain. You can have the U.N. But we will no longer be paying the bill. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru Station Wagon you can find.

You can give everyone healthcare, if you can find any practicing Doctors (that is... practicing, Howard Dean) who will follow to your turf . We'll continue to believe healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

We'll keep 'The Battle Hymn of the Republic' and 'The National Anthem.' I'm sure you'll be happy to
substitute 'Imagine', 'I'd Like to Teach The World To Sing', 'Kum Ba Ya', or 'We Are the World.'

We'll practice trickle down economics, and you can give trickle up poverty its best shot.

Since it often so offends you we'll keep our History, our Name, and our Flag.

Would you agree to this? We think it is certainly fair and equitable.

In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you all of ANWR on 'Who will need whose help in 15 years'.

Sincerely,

P.S. Please take Barbra Streisand, too."

I agree, we pay taxes on many levels and know where and what the taxes I pay goes towards for the mostpart (with the exception of military black budgets). No dispute there. Taxes are collected from a myriad of sources ALL going towards ALL government operations/programs/ policies (the only way the government can operate). Agreed.

I believe I understand now what you meant and we were talking cross-purposes and partially agree with you (all but the quit using part). I'll admit a "D'oh" moment here, this one time, if I have to, I guess . Taxes or no taxes though we still "pay" for any illness, disease, or addiction regardless (in loss of production) then. I was taking your use of the word "pay taxes on tobacco" literally. How about this, until the government bans/regulates the tobacco plant or I choose to stop partaking, I will never literally pay a continuous specific tax on tobacco like most. You're absolutely correct, it doesn't matter what's taxed, the only guarantee is that it will be spent on something (no matter how it's deemed). A city near me just spent 30K on a study for a new logo, allowed the citizens to vote for their favorite, and the city counsil opted the least voted on choice.


templter- GREAT POST 3061!

The health Nazi in me would be to suggest those who are "poor" (the ones taxpayers have to subsidize and support for healthcare and such) be barred from items/activities deemed "unhealthy" (by the government) then. I believe the US is in the top 10 list with the most obese "poor" people in the world.

madisonman and fanta46- I'm sincerely curious to understand what makes the sources/claims you post here more reliable or credible (and to be believed)as opposed to those views that are contrary or question your obvious agenda? It's truly sad for those who don't know they suffer from the acute malady "michaelmooreism". I was just recently secretly informed of this disease by the second cousin of a friend that claimed to be a top secret agent in an equally secret organization known as the "Chartreuse Cross". I think one of them may have been related to the reporter who claimed there was cannibalism taking place in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. Intial symptoms include atrophy in the part of the brain that controls objectivity coupled with selective research of cited materials. Symptoms affecting personality are frequently expressed in elitist terms of "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong" (unenlightened, "sheep", or a propagandist). The state run newspaper in Russia is called "Pravda" (the Russian word for "Truth"). It appears you guys would link to their site and unquestionably believe their material as well... if it was anti-Israel.

Don't get me wrong here. It doesn't matter to me if you might be anti-semetic, anti-Israel, neo-Nazi skinheads (that's the impression you guys are giving me) or not. I suppose I could post links to other threads here, do a little selective editing of your posts supporting that impression too. You guys do seem to have A LOT to say on this Gaza/Israel topic and VERY little to say positive about Israel... hmmmm. Fortunately for you guys michaelmooreism isn't spread through casual contact.

Huh? What? How do I pay tax on a carton of cigarettes if I don't buy them again? If you're a smoker, whatever brand it is that you're smoking it sure the heck isn't legal. Of course it's based on INDIVIDUALISTIC thinking and purchases. Granted, we all pay taxes to one degree or another (even those on social entitlement programs). Whether it be property tax, income tax, taxes on products (I.E. tobacco, beer, or vehicles), it's collected and redistributed by the government. If I do not own a car, I do not pay sales tax on one nor for the taxes on gasoline that goes into one, anything associated with with a car. If I do not use tobacco, I do not pay the taxes on them. When I PURCHASED the seeds for growing my own tobacco, I paid a tax ONCE ... for the seeds. As one who lives in the country with my own drinking well and septic system. I don't pay a water or "flush" tax either like they do in certain cities. I may pay taxes but they are based upon individual single product/lifestyle choices.

Ok madisonman, your point being? British Jews are speaking out against the current military action in Gaza, ok... so? Aside from cutting and pasting the article, what are you trying to say by posting this?

If your point is "Hey, it's a current event, I'm just posting it to be posting it and I thought it was interesting", okay, I suppose I could start posting every current "man bites dog" story then.

If you're trying to say that there will always be "human rights activists" that will always try to undermine policies/actions that help promote safety and security its citizens, I would agree with you 1000%.

If you're trying to say that just because they are Jewish that they have more "street cred", then I would seriously question your intellectual capabilities and suggest to have those logic wires under the hood checked. Just because a woman is against abortion or a minority is against affirmative action policies doesn't give them any more "cred" than anyone elses opinion of any given topic.

Would you please clarify your point?

Best post of this thread in my opinion. Since I partake in the leaf and don't want to pay the taxes on it, I grow my own from seeds from this site. http://www.virtualseeds.com/tobacco.html

I have no problems with PETA renaming, marketing anything. So long as they aren't assaulting people/committing acts of terrorism, tossing buckets of red paint (to represent blood) on those who wear fur- they may do as they please as far as I'm concerned. I believe sea kittens would go well with a side dish of baby seal strips, so it's quite obvious I would say "yes".

Oy vey... It would help tremendously if I could spell the word "future" (as mistyped in the header) oh well... I suppose they had typo's in 1939 too. A 30 minute "way back spell-checking machine" would have been helpful!

These two youtube clips are from the 1939-40 World's Fair. It's the 70th anniversary this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74cO9X4NMb4&feature=related (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7dT2HId-c&feature=related (part 2)

Some things actually came to fruition, some technologies have been advanced in certain areas. Some things... well... haven't changed as much or at all since then. I'll give these guys an "A" for imagination.


Psssst fellow geeks... I'm making a personal plea here... HELP ME STAY HERE and out of the political forums, PLEASE!