Oh no don't worry, i am not offended, I see where you going with. Yeah some might view it as a cop out as it were. Everything is a personal choice i think when you get down to it. I was just stating that one could logically and with reason choose to believe in something regardless of substantial proof. Your right that in a sense by using that arguement I am also saying that i don't believe in something. When it comes to me personally, I am a philosophical Taoist. I choose not adhere myself to any religion or its deity. I even offered what is closer to my actual beliefs and precepts in another thread, i'll post it below becuase it will mesh with this threads flow and give you a better idea where i am coming from and where i am going with this thread.

Who or what said that there had to be a creator or creators? Why do we constantly try to give a form of personality, an ego or human like quality to something in order to give ourselves a sense of security that this is all planned out and everything is really under someone else's control? What is wrong with accepting that there is choas in the universe? Does everything need a reason or plan? When do we realize that the plan maybe is that there is no plan? My parents came to me when i was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes because it was part of "God's" plan. My father even tryed to convince me that "God" was punishing me for something i had done or would later do. It didn't take me long to realize that was a load of bull. I personally don't need some form of reassurance to convince myself that things are under control. I find more peace in accepting who and what i am is not because of somebody's grand scheme but because it just is. I can handle that and that is all i need to deal with what i can not explain or understand completely. Let me put it another way. Stories seem to work best so i will go that route. There once was a zen master who was preparing to pass on. He looked through his pupils to see who was best suited to take his place as head of the temple. He narrowed his options down to two. One was a very bright and intelligent leader. The other was a devoted monk of many years and acted as the temple's cook. The master decided to test them with a simple koan to determine who would succeed him. He has them bring a table in and place a glass half filled with water on it. He then had them enter individually to test them. He had the intelligent leader come in first. He pointed at the glass and said what is this? The pupil took a few minutes to ponder the koan. He then turned to the master and said," It is that which is before us in this existence and we must acknowledge it and try to understand it." The master released him and had the cook come in. He then posed the same koan to him. The cook looked at the glass only a second. He then grasped it, drank the water and threw the glass out of the temple. As he turned to leave he told the master," That is it." and left. Now i leave you all with a koan of your own. Who did the master choose to succeed him and why?

Now some might be a bit preplexed as i could argue for belief in a higher power yet turn around and question the nesscity of a "creator". Really there is no conflict in my mind when it comes to this. My thinking is if there is a source from which all things came that it most likely be of something beyond a human nature or equivalence. I choose to think that this source as it were would be something that goes beyond what religion uses a way to associate humanity with the divine. A source that for lack of better words that connects all things, resonates through them, is what represents the absolutes truths in the universe and yet is devoid of any mind,ego,or personality of its own. Lao-tzu put it best when he was trying to describe what i am trying to a feel i am still coming up short. He said," I call it the Tao because i do not know what to call it in words that would encompass what it is completely." I choose to think that that this source, Tao for lack of a word which would suffice. Its not fear of the unknown that compells my thinking. Rather it is a realization of which i know human concepts and words will only fail to bring about that realization for another unless they experience it themselves. It drives me to question everything, embrace the unknown and the fact i don't understand and know much about it and everything else in the universe. I know i have throughly confused most people but I get a tranquil calm from simply just being and knowing that it will change.

By using that argument you admit that part of you does not believe in a higher power. The higher power knows that because of his omnipotence. How does that make the higher power feel? Does that qualify you for a ticket to pass through the golden gates? Or are you just living in fear of the unknown?

I used to use the same argument myself. Then I thought it was probably a cop out to do so. Please don't be offended by my comments. You're entitled to your belief and I'm just voicing my opinion.

As someone who is more philosophical and spiritual. I choose not to attach myself to religious institutions. My reason for belief in a higher power, a source to all things as it were goes back to Blaise Pascal's Wager arguement. I try to avoid the terms deity or "God" because of the tendency of those words humanizing something which is not human. Anyways in the Wager arguement, belief in something is a wager or a bet as it were. If i believe in a higher power and there is one then i lose nothing. If there is no higher power then i lose everything. If i bet that there is no higher power and there is I still lose everything. I don't have to absolute proof to find good reason to believe in something. I just play the odds and statistics. A 50/50 chance is better than resigning myself to no chance at all. Just my thoughts is all.

Queen - Somebody To Love

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cxbFLYa0_bw

So we take it from *M* (Massive Attack)

Marilyn Manson - Tainted Love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-0MXklxHlQ

Im not arguing. Im actually too tired for this. I didnt get to bed till like 3am last night for arguing on forums. No, I'll pass. Carbohydrate makes me feel lethargic.

My logic right now is why don't we simmer down, take a big breathe, and share the mashed potatoes

Now am I going to get some mashed potatoes or what?

Whats your view?

Whats your view?