In a world which seems to have a slang street motto "a virgin is an ugly 13 year old" I would also interject that salvation doesn't always come to folks at an early age. So, until a person is a Christian, its hard telling what they might have gone through, experienced, dabbled with, etc. Will you forgive them if they had at one time been a witch before coming to Christ? What if they had dabbled with drugs? Fill-in-the-blank ____________ with a sin, and let's ask if we can forgive any of it.

Christ can forgive all sins, and can we as Christians realize that man, as created, is a sinful critter? The unredeemed, non-saved person might have went through who knows what prior to becoming a Christian. To God, sin is sin, and when God forgives us, our sins are cast as if as far as from the east is from the west. And with Christ as the one making the example, can we not find a way to forgive someone of something they had done perhaps before even knowing Christ? More importantly, can we learn to forgive each other even when we mess up after we come to knowledge of who Jesus is? Better yet, can we forgive ourselves once we figure out right from wrong as we study the Bible?

Forgiveness comes in large packages... it seems like the tally was 70 times 7 times we should forgive... and we're worried about forgiving once?

Matthew 18:21-22
"(v21) Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? (v22) Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."


Pertaining to forgiving another... perhaps heed this...


Matthew 6:14
"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"

Matthew 6:15
"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."


I think that says it all....

The event of Lucifier rebelling against God is to have happened prior to the creation and the Garden of Eden events. Therefore, the acts of sin already existed before Adam and Eve fell in the Garden of Eden. Man's first sin was when Adam and Eve sinned, but sin existed before the Garden of Eden, in that Lucifier fell prey to sin when he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. The whole plan is to root out evil once and for all, and in Revelations, these things, the devil, the fallen angels, and those who do not wish to follow God's ways will be thrown into a Lake of fire and that will be that.

There is more to the story than just the Garden of Eden event.

God may have known man would fall, but he also knew that Jesus would die on the cross, and millions would choose to follow his example. He knew that millions would follow the law of Moses back in the day, too. This life that we find... this reality is a proving ground. It is like a sifting of what is good from what is evil. And in the end, the very end, there will be yet one more heaven and one more Earth, and the former things are to pass away. Meaning, God is working on getting rid of evil once and for all. In His time, for His glory, as it pleases Him. After all... he's God.

In modern terms, perhaps God likes to tune in to "The Man Channel" and watch as out lives wander through this reality in which he has cast us all. If he knows the future, well, that is his perrogative as an omniscent being I suppose. It doesn't mean man knows the future, and it doesn't mean man does not have a free will to choose this or that. If the thing goes to syndication, and God decides to watch some re-runs of The Man Channel, well, that's up to Him I guess. But with my sense of reason, I can consciously take in a breath of air, and I can hold it for as long as I can stand. And if I so desire, I can do that again and again. I choose to do that. That is my free will. Pre-destination says God already knew I was going to do that. I can buy that, too.

The important thing to know, way beyond all this silly babble, is to know Christ and him crucified. Know that on the third day he was resurrected and now sits at the right hand of the father. And most importantly of all things, we too, having faith in him, can live also. It is a choice you can make to ackowledge the teachings of Christ, or a person can choose not to follow Christ. People can even choose to flip-flop back and forth between the church and the world as much as they want. But let's not forget the folks who didn't have any oil in their lamps when the day came around... the idea is to be prepared for that day... regardless if it is free will or pre-destination, we are to make an effort at being prepared at ALL times. Not just for a few brief fleeting minutes on Sunday, then as soon as you're back in the car, out the door of the church, you turn right back into a sin-infested heathen. Those are the folks that will be caught with their pants down, with no oil in their lamps, when the day gets here..... And since we have cognitive, reasoning brains, we can choose to be prepared or not to be prepared.

I choose to be prepared.

Now, as far as God being in hell 24/7 because he is omnipresent... what I might say about this would be to ask what does God save us FROM with all this "Jesus Saves" stuff? We are saved from the wrath of God.

If any part of God would be in hell, it would be the wrath portion. It would seem God has the ability to make adjustments to himself pertaining to what he needs to accomplish. And by hell consisting of only 100% of God's wrath, then it would indeed be a place of utter torment.

Satan is not the dealer of death or the dude in charge of tormentation. He is a fallen angel who is likewise tormented in hell by God's wrath. Likewise the demons are of that number of 1/3 of the angels who once followed Lucifer on the day of his rebellion against God, and who were thrown into hell along with Satan/Lucifier/aka "the Devil."

Lucifer was once the "anointed cherub that covereth" meaning he was this angel who God had put in charge of the Earth at one point in time. Theologically, prior to the creation of the Earth we live on/in today. He was like the "top dog" but got exiled by God to a place God created called hell. Being the top dog to get thrown down, he... well... he gets all the press.

But we as believers, through Christ, have more power than Satan, we are stronger and have a link to Christ which makes us strong in all things. In this sense, we have "victory" over Satan. And if you read the back of the book, we win, Satan loses, so, in that sense, Satan is a defeated foe. It is wise to know who the enemy is... but wiser to know who the victorious are, and why through Christ we have this victory.

As the scripture writer put it...

"O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Cor. 15:55)

As far as the bit about God being in hell (more later)...

... folks might think Satan is in charge of Hell, but he isn't. Jesus has the keys to death and hell. (Revelation 1:18)

Prior to the crucifixion and death on the cross I am thinking the scriptures do teach that Satan was in charge of the death and hell thing. But when Christ died, that was the point when he entered into that portion of the spiritual world, wrestled the keys of death and hell away from Satan, and was since ressurected to the right hand of the Father.

In order to go get the keys, Jesus had to at least be in hell for a little bit... so he was there. As God and Jesus are one and the same... so through this I think I could say God has at least been to hell.

I have one more...

... What came first, the chicken or the egg?

It is an easy question to answer from the Bible. In the first chapter of Genesis, God creates the heavens and the Earth, and he creates all of the animals on the Earth. Then, after creating man (Adam) he has all of the animals pass by Adam and Adam gives the animals their names. Inevitably, one of those animals would have been a chicken, so... the chicken came first. not the egg.

:-)

Yes, fire produces light here on Earth, but evidently not in Hell. You are making an assumtion that the spiritual world is identical to the physical Earthly world, which it is not. Anything is possible with God. Including fire that doesn't produce light in Hell.

In a couple/few years I will have earned my PhD and you can call me Doctor... but I can't heal anything.....

I first thought that when I met my (now) ex-wife, thought we would never leave the bedroom... wow, what an experience... little did I know that she never did like to leave the bedroom, and 5 years later I figured out she was still in there with her ex-boyfriend when I wasn't at home, which is why she is my EX wife now...

If you could do that, they would vote for you as President...

What makes for good research is an honest evaluation of each side. True research SHOULD be objectional, but in today's "politcally correct" world of academia, the research oft times gets scewed histerically to the left-wing side. At that point, in a world run by the ultra rich who think they are intellectuals, federal grant money pours out of Washington, into the college campuses, and we have a whole bunch of heads full of mush running around trying to substatiate their new billion-dollar federal global warming grant...

Statistics that are speculative are easily fabricated. Since the event or events haven't happened yet (remember the Y2K bug of 1999?) public opinion can be stirred simply by using the media circus propaganda machine to tell the sheeples what to think.

Sort of like some ground digger finding a skull out in the middle of no where with a big fore head. Suddenly they have speculated that it is a missing link. When in all actuality, it was probably some dude who was born with a real nasty birth defect, and knowing human nature, he became an outcast, and that is why no other skulls like his were found anywhere near his. Most likely mankind had annihilated itself, as we seem to have the tendency to do... and he was banished from his village into the unknown outback somewhere... a zillion years later some college grant money gets generated and they claim it proves the "Theory" of evolution...

Very much like telling somebody you can prove God exists... or that you can prove that God does not exist.... either way, if you are a very good public speaker and research presenter, you can generate millions of dollars of grant money. And that is what keeps universities afloat. Some universities have a grant quota they require of their professors... So, to keep his or her job (or promise of tenure, or promotions after tenure...), they keep stimulating the latest ridiculous un-provable theory.....

That is where the money is, and that is why I want to be a college professor when I grow up.

I want the letters "Ph.D." chiseled into my headstone when they chuck me 6 feet under.

Just remember it is the "Global Warming THEORY"... it isn't a law (i.e. "The Law of Gravity")...

If you were in Michigan last February when the temps hit 30 below zero you'd be laughing at global warming, wishing for summer to come...

I sincerely believe the Global Warming Theory is a convenient way to push for left-wing liberal politcal action that amounts to basically zilch-o... except that a lot of eastcoast (and left-coast) university grant money gets generated ... into the millions most likely billions of dollars... Telling people you can prove global warming is sort of like telling folks you can prove God exists... or... that you can prove God doesn't exist...

It has sort of combined with (or spawned, don't remember which) the "Green" movement wherein a lot of corporations are actually attempting to be (howbeit it ever so slightly for some) a little more ecology conscious.

Belching tons of pollutants is obviously not a good thing. I don't need the global warming politcal action committe to tell me pollution is bad.

Now let's talk about the latest organic foods craze and please explain exactly how many milligrams, etc of pesticides and chemicals can scientifically be proven to shoot out of a chicken butt into (or) not into an organic chicken egg that gets a grocery store price at Whole Foods of $6.00 a dozen...

Meanwhile major corporations are laying off thousands in the U.S., and hiring workers for like 14 cents an hour in such places as Bangladesh... workers which are forced to work 20 hour days, sleep beside their sewing machines, and are black listed or beaten to a bloody pulp if they even whisper anything about a trade union... (see the book: "People Before Profits" by Charles Derber)

Nobody gives a $hit about that... they are too busy chasing globally warm rainbows and worrying about pesticides in chicken eggs...

OMG... and they make those great big Scoops kind of Fritos...

<<on my way to the store to satisfy munchies...>>

I have been meeting women like you all my life.....

You might try moving to Michigan... this is one of the only states that has laws protecting discrimination againts height and weight...

speaking of vanilla ice cream... try a spoon full of peanut butter on the side... OMG its good... vanilla ice cream and peanut butter....

or....

let the vanilla ice cream melt just a tad and dip Nacho Cheese Doritos in it... oh my goodness... a match made in heaven... vanilla ice cream and Nacho Cheese Doritos...

I simply want a woman who is as happy and obedient as my dog ... does exactly what I tell her to do... never barks... and only bothers me when she has to use the bathroom... I throw her some food once a day, and she curls up at my feet all night long...

I don't think that is too much to ask...

sounds like a great combination to help yourself have a lengthy conversation with the Porcelain God...

Well, I looked at the first couple pages and didn't see anything about Ann Arbor, so...

I don't really have much of anything positive to say about Ann Arbor... Since I was 19 I have moved 53 times, and I am planning a move next summer... I honestly think Ann Arbor sucks more than any other place I have ever lived in my life.

Its like... if you don't bend over and smoochy the big gold M then you are a left-over out-cast... I hate the University of Michigan... every time I turn around I find one more reason to despise that place... a total waste of perfectly good real estate...

Its a city of 114,000... and there is not even one gun store... if you are a sportsman or hunter, the closest shop to buy rifles or shotguns is down at Cabela's in Dundee, and a half hour away... WAAAAAAAY too many liberals here for my taste... they must have taxed and/or legislated all of the legitimate business-folks who owned gun shops OUT of the city... I guess the only place to buy a gun in Ann Arbor now is from the black market over in Ypsilanti...

The criminals have lots of guns... just check the Eastern Michigan University news... last September there were over 30 violent crimes on or near the campus... weeee what a nice place to live... the bad guys have got it figured out that the EMU students get their financial aid refund checks the first week of September and they are like sitting ducks to the local population... and evendently the Ypsilanti P.D. doesn't show any motivation to stop any of it...

weeeeeeeeee

Let's all move to Michigan.....

.....NOT.....

can't wait to get the hell out of here....

It really doesn't matter who the figure-head is at the top of the heap. They will only be a puppet to the lobbyist and big money groups. "We the People" don't exist anymore... its now "We the folks who are addicted to TV and watch what they want us to think about over and over and over again"...

The last 5 Presidents including the latest puppet dude in charge, have all been... uh... ridiculouis leaders...

I thought it would be very entertaining to see Obama as President... and it would be equally entertaining to see the Nuge as Gov... what the hell... we could have a state holiday called the "Kill It and Grill It" day somewhere around November shortly after white-tailed deer season opens...

He could start his Campaign down in Dundee at the Cabela's store.... hand out free beef jerky and such... and signed Nugent CDs from the 70s...

As long as it would keep him from playing that damned Fred Bear song, I'd vote for him

Just think, Dick Devos threw away $60 million of his own money in the last election against Jenny... and he lost... he could have started about a dozen small businesses with that kind of cash and put people to work here... but nooooo... hahaha

I am leaving next summer... someone turn the lights out when the last person finally leaves... and as folks skee-daddle out of here, the U.S. Representative districts become less and less... as the population drops, so do the number of Representative districts... which means the state has less and less voice in Washington DC all the time... weeee

Sort of like a bad video game that cannot be restarted

It is most likely because the folks here in Michigan are unemployed and unable to pay their Internet access bill... so don't take it personal...