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It says in his word " The love of money is the root of all evil. It says in his parable that the Rich man ended up Burning in Hades And he chose to do so, when given an opportunity to speak he has for a finger dipped in water. He did not ask to leave. Ever wondered why? who would choose only to ask for water? only those whose focus is in the wrong place. It doesn't make a difference because there is no way to get across. The reason Jesus put in the asking for water is because they are a dessert people. They know what it is like to go without water and what it feels like to have your thirst quenched. He is giving an example so that you feel what the rich man feels. |
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if that is what you truely believe, then you can feel free to give me all your access money. I will take very good care of it. I personally believe that Jesus teaching are relative to the time they are taught in. Society has changed and they way people live their lives has changed. All you have to do is brush up on your history to realize this. We also have the technology now, to build a reeed;ally big needle. 
On the Needle quote you are exactly right. People today would rather go to EXTREAM lengths to avoid following the words of Jesus. It wont surprise me when they build the huge needle and while they are at it they might as well change the Name of hades to heaven in the parable. That way the poor man will go to hades and the Rich man will go to heaven. |
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Topic:
my point of view...
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...of yesterday and today's events in these forums. 1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth. My answer: First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong. Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read. Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe. Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.) 2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner. My answer: It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount. I don't say more about this because each one knows each one. A final conclusion: As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate. However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something. TLW Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides. Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks. Your living in a dream world then Chaz cause he named names and they were all on one side. There was nothig equal about it. He named names, yes. He however, didn't state that those were the only people involved. If you want to assume that you know everything thats going through another persons mind that is fine. I don't like to pretend I know what others are thinking so I give them the benefit of the doubt. I didn't have to pretend. He wrote it out. |
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Jesus didn't need to mention how they made it back then. It was common knowledge. You were born into nobility and they took advantage of everyone else. You could not change your class in those times. Paris Hilton? Most people don't think she is successful. She is rich, but she didn't earn it. You make it sound like people can only get rich by doing evil things, you example of selling women into slavery. There are lots of ways to make good money. If you take 2 identical people, who live their lives the exact same way. One is poor and the other is rich you think the poor man would go to heaven and the rich man go to hell just because he has more money. It is your actions that define you, not the amount of money that you have. in response to your two identical people question Not according to Jesus. He makes it clear that the Rich man resides in hell. In the parable and by the Camel saying. |
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Topic:
my point of view...
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To argue the belief in God is silly and a waste of time. What you want to do is forget about that argument and worship life. You have been put here to experience life, to learn and grow. If you don't believe in a God, it does not matter. You are alive! That is all you really know. You exist, and that alone is a great miracle! Use this life the best you can and look around you. You can see and touch and feel and taste! You can choose what you will do with your time. That is the most precious thing. The time and the life and how you spend it. JB They will never comprehend a simple truth like that. |
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I like how rabbit just ignores all my posts, but I will keep posting. At no time in any of the parables were the rich mans faults actually having money. It was how he obtained it. If you look into history, people were rich back then only by oppressing the poor. Read your history. Things are not the same in this day in age, at least in our country. It is not a sin to be rich, and in fact being rich is relative. If you make $70k a year in the US I would not say you were rich. You would be in the middle class,however, you would be rich as compared to the common people in third world countries. The parable of the rich man that ends up in hell does not say he sinned by how he got it. He is just in hades for being rich. Then Jesus says again harder for a Rich man then a Camel in the Needle. None of these things says anything about how they made it. Now as to our society, If a man makes a millions of Dollars selling woman in to slavery in the third world. Then he takes his money moves into an upscale home in a Miami suburb in mansion with other rich people goes to Church, gives money to the food shelf, and never tells anyone how he made his money. Will people look up to this man? He is very very rich, he gives his money to the needy, to everyone that sees him he is a big success. Our society almost exclusively judges success by monetary wealth. Look at famous people like Paris Hilton, Donald Trump,and so on. Now look at how your tax Dollars are being used From the net... To make things worse for the homeless, a growing number of cities are criminalizing their very existence. Almost 70 percent of cities surveyed by the National Coalition for the Homeless passed at least one new law targeting homeless people since January 2002, according to an August 2003 coalition report. "Instead of the compassionate responses that communities have used to save lives in the past two decades, the common response to homelessness [these days] is to criminalize the victims through laws and ordinances that make illegal life-sustaining activities that people experiencing homelessness are forced to do in public," said Donald Whitehead, executive director of the National Coalition for the Homeless and a former homeless victim himself. ..... You can close your eyes and say it isn't you but it is all of us. As you also pointed out the third world has it much much worse. Like the Food for Peace program I mentioned at the begining we are doing harm by forcing these people to use the aid we give them to buy from us. As opposed to using the money as they see fit. Like to buy from local farmers that could make an investment in thier own land. |
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Topic:
my point of view...
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...of yesterday and today's events in these forums. 1) Yesterday I saw a post which basically said that it's ok for people to have beliefs as long as these beliefs are not publicly expressed. Furthermore, if for any reason these beliefs are expressed people who express them must be ready to show with reason why those beliefs should be truth. My answer: First of all, and just from a simple basic natural law. If I'm being forced not to express my beliefs this just go against my basic right of self expression which is just wrong. Second of all, if I'm an atheist and if I'm walking down the street and I pass by a church ofcourse I won't get in. The same applies in this forum. All of us know who is who. So if I'm an atheist and I see TLW who is crazy fanatic posting something ofcourse I'm not even going to read. Third of all, how am I going to give a reasonable explanation with regard of my beliefs if certain nonbeliever does not have the open mind to read and respect my explanations rather he/she always is in a defensive mode trying to diminish every single reason I gave about what I believe. Therefore, let's not claim innocense if inherently we are attacking other's beliefs (not just christianity.) 2) Today, a thread claiming that the debates held in this forum are not being held in an adult manner. My answer: It works both ways. Believers and nonbelievers are guilty in the same amount. I don't say more about this because each one knows each one. A final conclusion: As long as the dialogue is just exchange of ideas why I think a belief system is correct or not I will debate. However, I have stated too many times (and I won't get tired) whenever I see a derogatory or a ridicule agenda I will say something. TLW Again another good point. I thought spiders was good too, but it was apparent that people took it the wrong way. I think people had the impression he was attacking the atheist side and I think he meant both sides. Both sides should express their opinions, have respect for each others believes, promote the sharing of ideas, and try and hold back any intolerant remarks. Your living in a dream world then Chaz cause he named names and they were all on one side. There was nothig equal about it. |
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Topic:
my point of view...
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any man that tells me god is not real i will believe if he can at least make one single blade of grass himself....until then i cannot believe that everything NOT man made was by happenstance I can do you one better. My ancestors made your God. |
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believe what you want it still comes down to action ----------------- sin 1 (sn) n. 1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. 2. Theology a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God. b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience. 3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong. -------------------- i do not see rich listed if your deliberate disobedience results in your being rich i can see that but rich in and of itself is not correct after all david was a man after gods own heart if i recall he was very rich Jesus makes it clear that you will not make it in to heaven as a Rich man. He even gives a parable showing how the Rich man ends up in hell. He clearly states to give away what you have and follow me. When you do not give those things away you being disobedient. If I tell my kid put down that dead bird!!!(yuck) If he says in response to me "just possessing a dead bird in my hand is not bad it is only if I do something with it father". He is going to be in big trouble. I made it clear. He is disobeying by his INACTION |
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Rabbit...I gave it all away. Cause I just loved Jesus. I gave my inheritance to my sister to have. Cause the things of this world and material possessions did not interest me in the least. I just wanted to serve Jesus with my life. But Rabbit...do you know what God did? He gave it right back to me....plus more. Do you know why? Cause I put God first, rather than worldly possessions....and God just wanted to Bless me anyway...for putting Him first. 
And Rabbit? True Christians who put God first, feel the very same way I do. Cause really, we are RICH in JESUS..and really do not care for the things of the world anyway, when we are in love with Jesus....but God still LOVES to Bless His People anyway. And christians with wealth, that love the Lord? They GIVE of their wealth.... and God just keeps giving it back. Cause God knows their hearts...and knows they love to give..and again...God just wants to Bless His People. Rabbit? God wants to BLESS Us..not leave us poor. I just Came back online for a second..and saw your reply to my earlier post..showing once more , that you still do not understand. 
I will continue to pray that God will help you to understand , Rabbit. And leave it at that. God Bless You Rabbit. 
Nite..... ps..one more thing..... God said to give, and it shall be given....Good measure pressed down , shaken together..( read Luke 6:38 ) .... Rabbit... this giving applies to poor people too.... they need to give to God.....and put God first, even if they have little. Cause God sees the heart of a giver ....and loves a cheerful giver....casue a giving person is someone who does put God first. And christians put God first ,out of Love for God. Rabbit...Especially when one doesn't have it to give , is the time to trust God and give..all the more. And watch what God will do. You see Rabbit, I am one of those poor ones here....who trusted God....gave it away....got Blessed back ..gave it away...got Blessed back...gave it away....got Blessed back.....and still give to God and to others in need. Rabbit....People I know that were dirt poor, started giving... and today they are fiancially blessed....and they still are giving and giving and giving! But now they have MORE to give.....And God keeps blessing it back to them !! Rabbit.... you can't outgive God!!!
He just wants our heart though...that's all. When you truly love God, all that worldly stuff don't matter anyway. Ok...going back to sleep now....praying this does get across now....finally.. 
The Parable of poor Lazarus and the Rich man. It shows the Rich man being blessed with good things here on this earth. While Lazarus has a hard time here he is poor and he has no rewards here. When they pass away it becomes clear to them both that Gods rewards are not of this earth. Lazerus has an eternity in heaven for only a lifetime of poverty (why does poverty get him into heaven?) The rich man is burning in Hades for eternity. He thought that the things of the world were rewards from God but found out at his death that Gods rewards are all in Heaven. |
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Topic:
Evangilism
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Rabbit.. do you think Satan actually WANTS you to hear the Truth of God's Word? NO!!! Rabbit....THAT'S why the devil fights so hard, to blind the eyes and ears of the people to the truth of God's Word.......and to confuse God's Word..cause he knows his time is short. The devil sits in churches even, and causes divisions. The devil fights God ....and one way he fights, is to bring deception into the church, so people will turn away. But God already won the Victory......thru what Jesus did on that cross. The devil just doesn't know it yet. Poor Devil. Following me here? DON'T fall for the devil's lies, Rabbit. Ask God to open your eyes and ears..and listen, Rabbit And God Will give You Understanding . Love you guy. Going offline ....Be Blessed now.
I happen to know that the "devil" does not want us to believe lies. Do you know why? Because he does not exist. He is on an island somewhere with Santa and the easter bunny. Don't worry, I will make sure you never have to deal with any of them. |
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Topic:
Evangilism
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Christianity is Relationship with God... Christianity is a Lifestyle.... A Way of Life. MorningSong, Thank you so much for your replies. Yes I can now see the difference between Churchianity and real Christianity. I don't see real Christianity very often. No you did not actually say those things that I pointed out. It simply appeared to be what you were doing. (Divorcing the Church and taking Christ and the Bible out of it.) That was my impression because I did not understand. I have met a few people that lived true Christianity and who were a good (shining) examples for their faith. These people truly impressed me, and if I had known more of them, I would probably have joined their church. They are in the minority. You are one of them. (((((MorningSong)))))))
(((((((((( Jeaniebean))))))))))))))
And Jeannie....Wouldee and Spider are " one of them "too.... ..... they are just defending against any errors spoken..unknowingly by others ...who don't know the Christian Faith that well.
And Jeanie....the reason they defend? They don't want the world to believe this error being spoken by you and others, of the faith..cause it is not true... The world has already heard enough of error, that comes with churchianity... they need to hear truth now..not more error. Do you See what Wouldee and Spider are trying to do now? They are simply, defending the truth of the faith. Cause They feel IF they say nothing, when an error is spoken here.... ..that the world will think the error spoken is true..IF they don't say anythng!! Following me here ,Jeannie?? This is the ONLY reason Woulde and Spider fight so hard to defind the faith....they are NOT doing it for themselves.....but to protect others from hearing any more errors about christianity..... casue enough eror has been shared agaisnt true christianity, already. Jeannie....Allow them to speak truth... they world needs to hear the truth of God's Word....and yuo and others too, Jeannie.....and NOT more error. I pray Jeannie, you will now see..that Wouldee and Spider's heart..is in the right place here......cause they love people here.......and want the world so much..to hear the truth..and not to hear anymore errors about the Chrsitian faith.
Jeannie.... I am Praying there Will be Peace and Understanding Now.....Among All on this Forum....and in the Hearts of All This Day...Amen
I do not want to discus Christianity or Churchianity with anyone on this forum. I know they believe they are defending the truth, but I believe it is a lie. So I will leave them alone and I will not speak of Christianity with anyone or bring up the subject, or argue the subject with any one on this club. I will speak only of my own beliefs and I will state what I do or do not believe if someone is curious or if they ask me a direct question I will answer it. I am willing to step around them if they will step around me. But if they want to debate I will not debate with them. We will see how that works for them and for you and for all the other Christians. JB Oh great thats all we need. More Christians getting to say what ever they want undisturbed while we take a beating. We are the ones that always play nice in the first place. You giving in even more to these temper tantrums may not be a good thing. However. We are always the ones that make the peace so I commend you for that. I think it is our number one attribute. peace in truth |
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Topic:
Just for Info Gods Words
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Who wrote the Book that has the story of Noah in it. ( I know I can look this up on the net! I ask it here because I want to get the input of the people here) |
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Topic:
Evangilism
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Christianity is Relationship with God... Christianity is a Lifestyle.... A Way of Life. MorningSong, Thank you so much for your replies. Yes I can now see the difference between Churchianity and real Christianity. I don't see real Christianity very often. No you did not actually say those things that I pointed out. It simply appeared to be what you were doing. (Divorcing the Church and taking Christ and the Bible out of it.) That was my impression because I did not understand. I have met a few people that lived true Christianity and who were a good (shining) examples for their faith. These people truly impressed me, and if I had known more of them, I would probably have joined their church. They are in the minority. You are one of them. (((((MorningSong)))))))
(((((((((( Jeaniebean))))))))))))))
And Jeannie....Wouldee and Spider are " one of them "too.... ..... they are just defending against any errors spoken..unknowingly by others ...who don't know the Christian Faith that well.
And Jeanie....the reason they defend? They don't want the world to believe this error being spoken by you and others, of the faith..cause it is not true... The world has already heard enough of error, that comes with churchianity... they need to hear truth now..not more error. Do you See what Wouldee and Spider are trying to do now? They are simply, defending the truth of the faith. Cause They feel IF they say nothing, when an error is spoken here.... ..that the world will think the error spoken is true..IF they don't say anythng!! Following me here ,Jeannie?? This is the ONLY reason Woulde and Spider fight so hard to defind the faith....they are NOT doing it for themselves.....but to protect others from hearing any more errors about christianity..... casue enough eror has been shared agaisnt true christianity, already. Jeannie....Allow them to speak truth... they world needs to hear the truth of God's Word....and yuo and others too, Jeannie.....and NOT more error. I pray Jeannie, you will now see..that Wouldee and Spider's heart..is in the right place here......cause they love people here.......and want the world so much..to hear the truth..and not to hear anymore errors about the Chrsitian faith.
Jeannie.... I am Praying there Will be Peace and Understanding Now.....Among All on this Forum....and in the Hearts of All This Day...Amen
This is silly. If "the one true religion" given to us by "God" is so weak that is can be knocked over by anyone that speaks against it, it cannot be from God. |
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It says in his word " The love of money is the root of all evil. It says in his parable that the Rich man ended up Burning in Hades |
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do you want it that much that you will risk sitting under a tree at night to rest your head? it is only impoosible to man but with God, all things are possible. it is one thing to believe. it is another to trust. who do you trust?
I know that the wold is not a magical place were a God bestows favors on the Rich. And lets the poor suffer cause they do not pray correctly. The world runs as it is, no miricals, no magic, no wishing it was so. Just hard work. Do on to others. Love those around you and do not kill people. That is what I trust. Peace in truth |
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Rabbit..after patiently taking the time to explain to you.. on how Christians with wealth , LOVE to give..... you come back with this statement: You replied...... <<<<<....You go ahead and hold onto your worldly possessions. I can see that of all the things you hold dear they are the closest to your heart. Maybe you should work on getting a genetically altered Camel that is the size of a thread. That should really make you feel better.... .>>>>>>> See Rabbit? I just shared how we christians love to give, and it fell on DEAF EARS. You did not comprehend one single word I shared with you. And ... all the other Christians sharing here with you also ...all they shared just fell on DEAF ears also. Rabbit. I am not God. I can't open your ears to understand. Only God can. I can ony Share. And Pray. Nothing more. God Bless You, Rabbit. Truly Praying God Will open your eyes and ears to see and hear...so that you will truly Understand God's Word.
Spoken in Love and Sincerity ,Rabbit....cause I Do Care.....
I read every word you put down. The problem is you keep making statements like "Christians with wealth" If you have wealth you are rich What does Jesus say about the Rich? Why would someone that calls them self a Christian still hold on to this wealth even after all the things that Jesus said even a parable that shows a wealthy man in hell burning? Only someone who had been taught to look past the actual words and come up with a alternate meaning could feel comfortable in that situation. I can only assume that a person that says that they truly love Jesus, yet still will hold on too worldly goods that he pointed out as bad. That person must really hold those worldly goods closely to their heart. I am sorry that you will never face the truth of your situation. Just like so many others here will hold tightly to these things and call me a liar because I state what Jesus said. It looks like it may be imposable for people to really hear the words Jesus spoke. |
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if i win the lottery am i going to hell? 
Only if Jesus is your savior and you believe in his word. |
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Rabbit... there are people of the world who are rich...that DON"T know God..and have made MONEY their God. True. And God WILL deal with them. Just as God dealt with the rich man who did not care for the poor man in the bible. See..that man in the bible who did not care fro the poor, made MONEY his God!! Not God His God. But Rabbit.....The true Christians who KNOW God ....and have Made GOD their God instead of WEALTH their God , WANT to GIVE to God and to the poor. And God BLESSES them more. See Rabbit... a christian may have wealth..but the wealth doesn't have the christian!! Follow? Once more..so this gets through.... A Christian may Have wealth... but the Wealth does NOT have the Christian! NOT if he is a true christian. ...cause a true christian blessed with wealth, WANTS to GIVE!!!! Cause God LIVES in that Christian's heart!!!! And one more thing...God KNOWS whom He can TRUST with His Money and Wealth!!! Yes....God's Money. Cause Wealth Comes from God!!! God Owns It All.....Everything!!!!~! God owns the cattle on a thousand hills...Remember? God Blesses those whom He KNOWS WILL GIVE...and NOT HORDE upon Himself!!!! God knows a man's heart !!!!!! And those who DO horde upon themselves what God is given? They have to answer to God one day!! That's between them and God. You focus on YOUR walk with God now, Rabbit. Get YOUR walk right with God, first..before focusing on others. As you state here there are people in the world that are rich that are not blessed by God. Then you say there are people that are also blessed by God with riches. If that is true that just means you cannot tell who is who by that. It is not a measure of who God favors. It doesn't say that the Rich man did not care for the poor man, it does not say that he worshiped money. It only says's he was rich. The parable is clear in that poor Lazerus is in Heaven and the Rich man s in Hades. You go ahead and hold onto your worldly possessions. I can see that of all the things you hold dear they are the closest to your heart. Maybe you should work on getting a genetically altered Camel that is the size of a thread. That should really make you feel better. |
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rabbit said: QUOTE: None of these words are from the mouth of Jesus. This is also one small instance compared to so many that Jesus made clear in his words. Why cling to the one instead of the many from the mouth of God himself? END OF QUOTE. ---------------- The mouth of God himself? - You have said in a previous thread that Jesus is not God. I am not clinging to one, merely quoted one example. And that was the very reason I chose this one!!!!!! Ask yourself the same question - take everything in context. Everything, not just a few words that you think that you can use to confuse or deceive others.
I do not believe that Jesus was God. I do however think he was a very smart teacher. The people that defend his words as only some suggestion to be followed losley as long as you feel good inside. They do believe Jesus is God. If you believe he is God don't you think his words would be the corner stone dont you think that when he came to earth his words were already chosen carefully? Why do you think that he would say things in an ambiguous way? If he was God he would know that people could easily look past one statement. So he made many. A rich man in Heaven is Harder then a Camel through a needle, the parable of the Rich man in hell and poor lazerus in heaven, if you want to be perfect give it all away and follow me, he tells the Rich man you follow the laws but now give awy your wealth and the rich man can't. Blessed are the poor, When did I see you o lord-what you do to the least you do to me. I am the one lying? I am the one that does not understand. I refuse to deceive you and more importantly I refuse to deceive myself. The words of Jesus are clear. The interpretation saying they mean diffrent then what they say are very muddy. Rabbit re-read your answer before you read what I ahve to say. take a minute I actually always re-read my statement so I understand what the person is referring too. |
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