Yeah we kinda did. My appolgies Theel. lol

lol nobody could blame you for that Joe, I'm assuming it wasn't free for any of us either. lol

And then wishing made a liar out of me. lol.

Geek, I agree with your last post. However, I shouldn't expect any of the women to, because they respond to playful cockiness unconsciously. If you ask a woman if she likes 'cocky funny' she'll tell you no. But if you walked up to her in a social setting and, within reason and without being obnoxious, playfully teased her, you're likely to catch her attention. And at that point, you're trying to avoid being sifted out of the pile, and to passively demonstrate those 'alpha male' characterisics, so if nothing else it'll buy you the next 30 seconds, which is pretty much what the first 10 minutes of a conversation usually is. lol.

Likewise Joe. I believe we found a third.... ^ lol

Joe, I thought the same thing. I can assure you we did. lol. But I can honestly say there's been nothing but improvement since taking the time to educate myself on what exactly it was I'm trying to do! lol. Has your experience been as positive?

In order for a girl to be interested in you, you have to BE interesting... Unfortunately, 'Hi, I'm _____, how are you?' just isn't as effective as it should be.

I agree with JoeKur. Keep in mind that women tend to weight what you say and how you say it more heavily than outward appearance, just like we tend to do the opposite. :-P lol. But it's just what we're naturally hard wired to do.

As Joe said, you have to be different and you have to be intersting. Keep in mind that anything above a 7 is going to get 10+ emails every day on a dating site, and they'll get approached several times every time they leave the house. So they've been socialized, they know what's coming. Maybe you're not a jerk but maybe the last 5 guys were. Given the constant overload of men who are slave to their hormones contacting them, they train themselves to sift through the bullsht. lol. So no response doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with you. She just has a split second to figure out if you're different or if you're like all the other jerkoffs before.

That having been said, try to stand out a bit, think about what you say before you say it, and find an entertaining way to show her you're a confident funny guy who's respected by others and is worthy of her time.

Also, keep in mind it's good to make gentle unintrusive casual conversation with as many ladies as you can. Most will talk to you if they don't see alterior motives written all over your face. They'll socialize you in no time. lol. Plus you can figure out what it is in a woman that you find attractive, and what they seem to find attractive in you, that way you're better equipped to find the right one for you, instead of doing as I'm sure we've all done at one time or another and tried to force something that wasn't right just because we weren't sure how to open up any other options...

Good luck!

We're still working on scaling them down, but I'll put you on the newsletter mailing list. lol. But for the moment I still haven't eaten, so I'm going to use the laws of physics to my advantage and make a grilled cheese sandwich. lol. Alas I must leave you to argue amongst yourselves.

apparently there are Gypsy! Which FURTHER proves my point. Darwinism at its finest! What's the next step in human evolution you ask? Me! lol

Well that'd be pretty coincidental seeing as how I typed it with my own fingers just half an hour ago. Post the thread, I'd be curious to meet the person who shares my thoughts AND phrases it exactly the same way.

Carnie, I would definitely agree with you there. There is no way to know for sure. I grew up in a very religious household and studied the bible in great detail. My reason for leaning toward disbelief is the fact that, as you pointed out, there are discrepancies all around, and while science addmittedly hasn't completely solved the mysteries of the universe, the Bible's integrity is dependant upon total truth, which as time passes, we find is getting harder and harder to defend.

But aside from pondering the meaning of life, I think for us humans, whatever we are, it's more important to focus on where we're at, what we're doing, and how we treat each other, as opposed to where we came from, regardless of the answer to that queston. That being said, I'm going to go tend to a very real and tangible issue, which is my growling stomach. lol So best wishes to you all. :-D

I found it! This is the article previously posted on another thread that talks about the recent evolution of the frogs. It's pretty interesting and I think it answers the question 'Do we see evolution today?'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/051028140816.htm

I'd be happy to respond to that. I'd reccomend reading 'A Brief History of Time'

Asking what happened before the big bang is like people who thought the world was flat asking what was at the edge of the earth. The question becomes obsolete as more information is gathered. When you apply quantum physics to Einstein's theory of relativity it raises the possibility and likelyhood that time and space are relative, as opposed to the common notion that time is indefinite.

The concept of time has no meaning before the beginning of the universe as was first pointed out by St. Augustine. When asked: What did God do before he created the universe? Augustine didn't reply: He was preparing Hell for people who asked such questions. Instead, he said that time was a property of the universe that God created, and that time did not exist before the beginning of the universe.

Also, the quantum theory of gravity has opened up a new possibility, in which there would be no boundary to space-time and so there would be no need to specify the behavior at the boundary. There would be no singularities at which the laws of science broke down and no edge of space-time at which one would have to appeal to God or some new law to set the boundary conditions for space-time. One could say: 'The boundary condition of the universe is that it has no boundary.' The universe would be completely self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself. It would neither be created nor destroyed. It would just BE.

Therefore asking what happened before the big bang, in that particular case would be like asking what's south of the south pole or what's at the edge of the earth. These ideas don't disprove the existance of God, but they show that the existance of God is not necessary.

To respond to your question of evolution, in fact we do see it.

To understand the concept I'd reccomend checking out http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/plants_animals/evolution/

There's also an article which I'm having trouble locating, but it had been posted on a previous forum regarding a species of frogs in africa which had evolved over the last 8,000 years. If I can dig it up I'll post it. It was also very interesting.

The thing about evolution is, a person doesn't just pop out of a monkey. It's a long term process by which the genes suited best to survive, do in fact survive.

There are several species which we know to have existed that weren't mentioned in the bible or any other ancient text. There are fossil records that show evolution. There is concrete evidence of Neanderthals and other Huminiods which were our closest related primates. You can go to a museum and see these things for yourself, all of them contradicting what we read in Genisis.

And for additional food for thought, here's an article that shows how rediculous the claims of Noah's Ark are....

http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/noahs_ark.html

I respect your resolve, but hard evidence is much to the contrary of the story of christianity, judaism, islam, buddhism, or any other religion. The proof that organisms evolve, the geological evidence that shows the world is much older than any creation story, and the pure expansiveness of the universe, in my opinion, greatly suggests that years of scientific reasearch are not wrong.

Furthermore, I would say that the disorder and chaos of society doesn't prove the existance of a supreme being, but rather challenges the notion of a loving God who instils order in his creation.

I know there's no arguing with the religious sect, because we don't share the same logic. I tend to believe that when every area of study points to the same thing, it's probably true, and that if it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true. The religious groups' logic tends to be more along the lines of 'Yeah, but God can do anything.' I would liken this argument to debating a 2nd grader who's response to everything is 'I know you are, but what am I?'

To quote Stephen Hawking, "The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." It's my opinion that if it is in fact divinely inspired, the deity of reality isn't the God of the world's religions.

So, sir, I must respectfully disagree.

Why thank you. That took a long time to write. lol.

Well folks, this is an interesting debate. The conflict between our percieved frame of reality and the discoveries that alter that frame of reality is something that we've been wrestling with most notably since we discovered the world wasn't flat after all. These new things tend to bump us outside our comfort zone and generate resistance.

To address the topic at hand, nobody has any solid proof as to the origin of the universe. But we do have clues. I grew up in a strongly religious household, so I'm familiar with the Christian Bible. I have also, much to the chagrin of my dear sweet mother, decided that I don't believe it. lol. I believe in respecting ALL opinions, as I can't prove any of you wrong. I believe creationists have just as much of a right to their opinion as I do mine. However, for anyone who may giveth a ****, I'll share my reasons for my own personal beliefs.

Evolution and the Age of the Earth

There is a lot of information that would suggest the earth is in fact 4 billion years old, that it was most likely an offshoot of the sun created by an impact (evidenced by the constant cooling and the earths inner core). There are certainly pieces to the evolutionary puzzle that are missing, however, most appear to be in place. If the creation took place according to the book of Genesis, then science is wrong. Several factors are:

Carbon Dating & Fossil Records

Geological evidence

The existance of species never mentioned in the bible such as dinosaurs, neanderthals and other huminoids

The complete impossibility that is Noah's Ark (I can't even begin to touch on the impossibilities, but if interested this article: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/noahs_ark.html is EXTREMELY interesting.)

The Origin of the Universe

This is the most profound question known to man today, and I fear, in our lifetime may never be solved. However, Stephen Hawking combined Einsteins Theory of Relativity and the Laws of Quantum Physics to come up with a plausible model. He suggests that perhaps we're veiwing the universe as we viewed the earth when we thought it was flat. His idea is that time and space are in fact relative and the universe is best modeled as a bubble. He explains this better himself in this 5 part lecture... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjwXe-pXvM. (Although it is a bit painful to listen to as it takes him a while to ...speak?. But whatever the case he's very interesting) The main point being that perhaps the 'beginning' is more like a point on a sphere, like the south pole. Just as the question, what's at the edge of the earth became obsolete by discovering it was round, asking what came before the begining, or the 'big bang' becomes just as rediculous as asking what's south of the south pole.

Biblical Contradiction

Biblical scholars are good at explaining the extraordinary claims of the bible by claiming God can do whatever. If that's true then I suppose that's an inarguable position. However, if I was attempting to create a tool to lead uninformed people I would write a book about an omnipotent being, claim to be his representative, and say that although what I tell you may seem impossible, it is entirely possible because this being can do whatever he wants! And how do you know the book is true? Why of course, the book is true because the book says its true! And it's a sin to question its validity, so don't ask again! Possible? I guess. Likely? Not really... The bible as we know it was compiled in the middle ages, then copied by hand for generations. Many scrolls were sorted through and the ones least contradictory to each other were chosen, and all of a sudden you have the Catholic Church, which became a wealthy powerful entity in middle aged europe.

Again, I respect all opinions, and don't hope to change any minds. If those of you who are christians are wrong, you've nothing to lose. If I'm wrong, I'll need to be buried with a lot of tanning oil. But as Hawking said, "The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.” It is my belief that if it IS divinely inspired, this God is not the same God described to us by Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or any other religion. The hard evidence, while incomplete, is too heavily against it.

That was a bit inappropriate. I can see why you struggle. My intention was only to try to help someone who'd reached out for help. Your unhappiness doesn't affect me one bit. I suppose that's not the first dog to bite my hand when I tried to pet it and likely not to be the last. Good luck anyway.

I don't mean to be negative, but what I'm reading here is very troubling to me, and the undertones suggest that these waters run far deeper than the original post would reveal.

As well intentioned as they may be, people who get into relationships for the sake of the relationship tend to do two things: A. They get hurt, and B. They hurt others. And I would be so bold as to suggest that perhaps the desperation for a relationship, any relationship, may not be the problem, but a symptom of an underlying instability.

You'd mentioned "bad times" from your childhood, and methinks this could quite possibly be the root of the problem. My strong suggestion would be to set up a session with a therapist who might be able to address some of these issues and help you to get ready for the real thing when it comes along. And it often does when you least expect it.

Remember, going to therapy doesn't mean you're crazy or that there's anything wrong with you; It means you're taking an active role in your health and working towards a life well lived.

Good luck and best wishes.