Hey, Mr. Brewer.
You're pretty new here. Welcome.
It's ok. A lot of us are very familiar with the dodging, generalizing and name calling. That's why we stop attempting to debate with those do that.
I debate with those willing to debate intead of making excuses for their Savior-in-Chief Hussein.

I think it's slightly strange of us to examine Islam and it's abuses with out discussing Christianity and it's abuses down through history. Because we can not legally kill homosexuals in this country doesn't mean we don't make their existence as unpleasent and the religious right wants to make sure the inequality continues, but we focus on Islam? Why? Our attitudes are no better.

Alrighty, let's do this the hard way.

Apparently you don't understand emminent domain. Article 5 of the Bill of Rights says the government must make fair compensation for the land seized and that it has to be for a public purpose.

So hypothetically, we have a government that can't pay its bills. How in Creation is it then to pay for land it's going to give away to settle debt, especially because of inflation at that point would mean it would have to pay more than the debt was worth.

Anticipating that you'll say "Well, they'll just get it from the Chinese." Ok, why would the Chinese throw good money after bad and pay out ANOTHER 600 billion to get the other 600 billion they're owed? If it's the land they crave at that point, all they have to do is wait for the fire sale and deal legally with the lawful owners of the property and cents on the dollar.


And what 'public purpose' would be served by just handing it over carte blanche to the Chinese. Never mind the inconvenient fact that the Chinese never demanded a mortgage on the land when they forked over the money for the loans and therefore have no legal collateral to stand upon. They can't legally foreclose on anything!

Why would it go to all this trouble when all it would have to do is default? And if China rattles the saber, what do you suppose we're keeping those nukes for?

See, you folks on the fringe think everyone is stupid, so you have no trouble believing the gorvernment and the Chinese would act just as stupidly. The Chinese, in taking 'collateral' the debtor doesn't legally possess and the Executive and maybe Legislative branches of the U.S. government trying such a hair-brained scheme that the Judicial branch is going to slap down.

And as for the military option, one need only look at how badly the Chinese military is already tied up in places like Tibet, putting down its own insurrections.

There are loons in the country that loathe this administration so much that they are obsessed with these paranoid scenarios giving them what they want the most- legitimacy. So they sit around all day and concoct these diatribes that can so easily be shot down.

I hope they read Glenn Beck's newest book and follow the advice about arguing on the facts.

-Kerry O.

brewer-

Although the "fair tax" is a better idea than the current system, it is still an unconstitutional tax. (direct taxes must be apportioned) Further, the government is immoral to lay claim to another person's property (income, in this case).

Actually I do not hate homophobes, but their ignorance distresses me for sure. There is a huge difference even if I did hate them. But I am sick to death of explaining them to people that it wouldn't bother to take the time to research it on their own. But I would not expect you to have responded in any other way.


Oh and you know me so well, I have been here like a week?

What is ignorant about not liking something? Why does not liking gays make one afraid of them? Why is hating someone for your reason morally better than hating someone for another persons reason?

The OP is talking about lives being taken in the most hideous of ways and all your thinking about is oil independence.. ugh

No I am explaining yet another unintended consequence of being so tied to every country in the world for critical economic things. It makes us impotent abroad to prevent any human rights abuse. I am on your side likely about human rights abuse, but we have to tolerate this because we need the oil. We have to tolerate the opium in afghanistan to have any hope of winning. We have to give china most favored nation trade status while they do unspeakable things because we need their manufacturing.

Im trying to point out that the social and economic are related.

I only want to debate ligimate information.

There is way too much lies and inaccuracies there to even begin. I would say do your research and come back when you have been better informed. It is not my job to school the fox zombies.

Very funny. If all else fails be the mirror huh?

-----------Please explain what that means.

Okay you just believed alot of racially prejudice propaganda tools that lead to demonizing the race in general then? I am trying to remember why had dismissed your rants.

-------------Where have I done that? You know how to operate the quote button so get to it.

Oh I remember you are the one who is using the old and very overly used communist ploy to demonize the president....lol Yea I remember.
And you had bought into a few of the racists greatest hits too.

---------Again, quote it. I posted a detailed and documented explanation of which of obamas ideals are in the communist manifesto.

You do know communism was real right? You do realize it is the second most popular political philosophy on earth and the most popular if you go by number of adherents. This is from the congressional record, look at how many of these goals have happened since 1963:

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Note by Webmaster: The Congressional Record back this far has not be digitized and posted on the Internet.

It will probably be available at your nearest library that is a federal repository. Call them and ask them. Your college library is probably a repository. This is an excellent source of government records. Another source are your Congress Critters. They should be more than happy to help you in this matter. You will find the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto interesting at this point.

Webmaster Forest Glen Durland found the document in the library.

Sources are listed below.

Microfilm: California State University at San Jose Clark Library, Government Floor Phone (408)924-2770 Microfilm Call Number: J 11.R5

Congressional Record, Vol. 109 88th Congress, 1st Session Appendix Pages A1-A2842 Jan. 9-May 7, 1963 Reel 12




It is cool. I just hope noone believes all the propaganda you throw around because it isn't accurate.

This is all my opinion here of course.

I don't think we do legally, but that doesn't mean we can't bring sanctions against a country who does such things. But we are talking about a people that live in the ancient past. It maybe a century or two before there is any change in that fundamental practice. The fear of public disgrace is a pathetic inhumane excuse to kill a group of people that in 99% of cases is not violent or worthy of being killed.

I can hardly type this makes me so angry. I don't know how I could ever have any respect for a people or religious institution that would condone such a thing. In fact I can't, and I put the blame squarely on religious interpretations of ancient religion. Oh but homophobes had no involvement in the writings in the bible..

Pressure can still be put on them.

What a bunch of garbage. I don't think you said one true thing the whole rant. You have blamed him for Bush blunders and exxagerated to the point of unbelievablity.

You know you guys could make better selling points if you would be truthful.

He went as far as he could with closing gitmo, right? If congress holds him up, that is not his fault.

-----It has nothing to do with congress, he has executive power. Go back and read a middle school level book on how the government works.


Don't ask don't tell? In the military? That is not going to be so easy to do. Complicated issue there.

-----He is the one who promised to do it. It requires one stroke of the pen for the commander in chief, ball point pens are not complicated.


He said the troops would start returning home within 16 months, I think. He has only had 8 months.

------He has already said he is reniging on that promise and is likely sending MORE troops and is starting a NEW WAR with Iran!


Healthcare and Income taxes are two different things, tying them together is not logical.

-------I agree but it is your savior obama who says he is taxing people who make over 250,000 to pay for his health care proposal.

I am noticing a current among obama supporters, you support him and attack all his detractors. Yet you dont even know what his plans are. The ones who do know what he has said and done, the informed electorate, are against him. the ignorant are for him.


I am not sure why I am explaining anything to you though, I believe you have shown you do not like him because he is not white, if I am not mistaken.

----------------
Brewer said:

Look, if you advocate using armed force to confiscate wealth from your neighbor to accomplish charity we have a fundamental different view. I think charity should be voluntary, not legislated.

Mexico is a socialist country and by fomenting class warfare for political gain for a few decades now their liberals are forced to pay people like me to protect them. Why you want to bring that about here is beyond me.

I'd say it's been bad here a lot longer, by about 3 to 4 years. Every time I get the local shopper/paper there's requests for donations.

"Most soup kitchens and homeless shelters are run by private groups from private donations."

They've been running low on food and donations for a couple of years.
Food pantries are almost empty.

the Federal debt isn't all that bad. In terms of absolute dollars it is the biggest its ever been. But as a percentage of our economy its not such a crisis. Our economy is bigger too. When you make more money you can take out a bigger mortgage or finance nicer cars


oops that was BIG

Reconsidering the closing date does not mean it will not close.

We need to be concerned with all the other prison camps that are doing the same thing that Gitmo has done.

It is going to take some time.

Hell Obama has only been in office for 8 months, not long enough to do anything of great magnitude.

I like science.

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/environment/global-warming-environment/antarctica-ice.html

I bee tinkin maybee he done be wanting a spanking?

Is there one that in certain people that makes them so paranoid they constantly imagine IRS agents with guns drawn at their doors waiting to shake them down?

--------Not at all you tool. You know damn well I was making a point about the ultimate result of government utopia is extortion. It just makes you mad because its true.



So you say, yet the income tax IS part of the Constitution and the Supreme Court has had ample opportunity to check the other two branches of government in this regard, yet hasn't in the ways you postulate they simply must.

-----------Slavery and prohibition were at one time part of the constitution. Most amendments since the civil war are contrary to the spirit of this country.



Yeah, on paper it looks real nice. But Social Security is the third rail of American politics-- as GWB can now attest, anyone trying to play games with it is committing political suicide. Besides, Social Security taxes are already capped at a certain dollar amount, above which you pay no further tax no matter how much you make. (You did know that, right?)

--------Yeah, thats the cap that obama intends to raise. It is political suicide because of fear politics and special interests. None of that makes it sustainable. It is the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.


Plus, once you add in state sales taxes, state income taxes, property taxes, et al, and account for the money no longer paid by corporations, I'm betting the _real_ flat tax rate would be about what it is now.

-------Who said anything about a flat tax rate? at leas READ the links if your goal is to find the truth and not to feed your ego.


And because the rich have the money to lobby Congress at a level the little guy will never, ever see, how long would it be before the middle class would be doing all the paying and getting nothing back for it?

-Kerry O.

--------The precise point you make here is why we need the fair tax.

www.fairtax.org

With the pre-bate and the consequent economic growth, the poor get a break and the system becomes fair. We eliminate the IRS and the cost of all that apparatus. Over 50% of all lobbyists in washington are for tax code matters. Its why its so long and cumbersome. We eliminate 50% of all lobbyists with one bill. Pretty damn exciting, especially as it gathers steam.