Glad to say that I was only brainwashed when I was a kid. I believed in Santa too.

Now I'm an aetheist and humanist.

Then I grew up.

nope!

Almost certainly a lady next!

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This topic is still going? I've been away for a while and rather expected it to have faded away.

Those who believe are trying every evasive trick in the book to justify their belief in their myths and legends, in the face of criticism from those who are aware there there is in fact no such thing.

Please don't get bogged down in all that incredible detail, it's just more trees in the forest that make it difficult for non believers to see. Too many trees and you can't see the wood!

Please, dear believers, try to give a simple explanation of what it is you believe in and why it is so important that you have this belief. Some of us just don't get it, or why it is so important. If you go into all that incredible detail, our eyes just glaze over as we can't make head nor tail of it. Nothing said in this thread has had the slightest effect on me from the point of view of 'conversion'.

I'm not actually asking for conversion, but some sort of scientific proof would help. I don't mean quoting someone famous who is also a believer, there are many of them and I could of course quote many famous people who are non believers, so that proves nothing whatsoever to me.

The kind of scientific evidence I require is the accepted method of peer reviewed journals, where someone carries out an experiment that seems to offer proof. That evidence is then published in a respected scientific peer-reviewed journal. Someone else then needs to carry out the same experiment and publish their findings in the same way. Other scientific researchers become interested and do their own experiements. Gradually a consensus appears and after a along time, it becomes 'accepted' that as far as we currently know, these researches seem to be valid. That is as good as it gets. There is no certainty in science, only currently accepted theories.

Please don't fob us off with the rubbish that god is 'outside science'. That is a cop-out and a total misunderstanding of what science is all about! For the record, science is the study of the world we live in. If there is a god, he, she or it, is part of that world. People build vast cathedrals for the purposes of worshipping this 'being' (for want of a better word). Why would they do that if there is no such being? Perhaps they've all been duped by the salesmen offering the promise of rewards after death (or punishment if you're the bad guy). We need to know!

So far, it goes without saying that no such evidence has been found. No answer has yet been provided here to the well known conundrum that if god can 'do anything' and is all loving, why so many natural disasters, with ten thousand people being killed in a single tsunami? Perhaps she doesn't really care about all of us individally? Or perhaps she cares greatly but is not in fact all powerful and cannot either stop the tsunami, or at least put the idea into people's heads that it would not be a good idea to be in that place at that time.

Sensible answers only, please. None of huge detail about what name we should use to describe this being, or who said what some thousands of years ago. That stuff is unhelpful to this topic.

Just to throw a spanner into the works here, I have read some research which suggests that we humans do not in fact have 'free will'. There is actually no such thing! Our brains are far more complicated than we ever thought. Even birds are known to use only recently discovered science to find out how to fly as they do from one country to another at times of migration.

Imagine this - the human brain is hard-wired to take the best option and make the best decision in each circumstance. Of course, the decision will always be based on the available evidence. If you're knocked down by a passing car because you didn't see it, or hear it, then of course the information passed to the brain didn't include anything about a passing car.

OK, so that's a simple example to make the point. If this research turns out to be true, then where will the world's religions be then? Nobody actually has free will. If you choose to go to your church on day that's because the info your brain has makes it the best thing to do. If your neighbour goes to a different church the same day, that's because they have different beliefs, possibly totally incompatible with our beliefs.

Things like who said what two thousand years ago, and what is the exact accurate translation of that from some dead language into what we think it might mean in todays' language will all become meaningless and irrelevant. Today's actions are based upon the 'evidence' that seems right to us. As it always has been, of course!

I shall certainly watch this research, because if true, the god delusion will have no further meaning to those who currently believe in it.

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... but down is more exciting! Maybe you should try down one day?

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But he didn't.

at the risk of spoiling your clean run, here is

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Is a lot older than he looks........... the clue is in the name!

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Good morning all. Have you girls not got to the top yet? I must have missed some serious numbers from the men while I was asleep

When I was at school I remember wondering how we fought other countries in the Second World War. Our priests used to 'bless' ships that were designed to destroy other ships including the people on them (ugh!) But we believed in the same god as they did. I could never understand that!

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Those who make very long and detailed posts to 'defend' their beliefs are very insecure people.

My answer to the thread question has always been NO.

In theory, this thread should consist of one word answers - 'yes' or 'no'.

Those long and detailed interpretations are pointless and do not answer the question posed in this thread. They only lead to a discussion of the different types of god and the reasons why people have different beliefs. With all due respect, that sort of thing is boring.

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