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| Topic: NOW THIS IS REAL TORTURE | |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Sun 02/17/08 04:28 PM
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 What a sick world we live in that we would even want to be like a terrorist. Animalistic and barbaric like a terrorist. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard then that and should not be a condoner nor a perpetrator of these crimes. When will men ever grow up. I still see all the little boys saying ....HE STARTED IT!!!!  I know I know this is all just Propaganda BS. You are right propaganda is always somewhere in the picture but in this case I am still just amazed that men never grow up...they are still little boys pointing their finger saying BUT HE DID IT FIRST!!!!!!
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theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place. Again, all I need to say is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Yeah yuor bat hit the nail once. how many times did yo swing and miss, or worse yet, swing and hit an innocent bystander? That's a hypothetical, saying that an innocent bystander could be hit. You are using sensationalism, non-realism to back your side up. You cannot prove it, yet I can prove that because of waterboarding we broke a man who gave up terror plots and fellow terrorists. Go back to school boychild. It has been proven before that torture is an unreliable source of imformation, that yes once in a greta while you will get lucky, but msot of the time yuo will get nothing but wrong information, if naything at all. |
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Edited by
Starsailor2851
on
Sun 02/17/08 03:59 PM
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Go back to school boychild. It has been proven before that torture is an unreliable source of imformation, that yes once in a greta while you will get lucky, but msot of the time yuo will get nothing but wrong information, if naything at all. Reverting to name calling? Interesting. Thanks for giving me the win. Broke Mccain in Vietnam as he admits in "Faith of My Fathers" saying how he gave his ship's name, squadron, and target in his autobiography simply as they threated to stop his medical treatment and it broke Khalid Sheik Mohammed. It works and has worked plenty of times. |
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theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place. Again, all I need to say is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Yeah yuor bat hit the nail once. how many times did yo swing and miss, or worse yet, swing and hit an innocent bystander? That's a hypothetical, saying that an innocent bystander could be hit. You are using sensationalism, non-realism to back your side up. You cannot prove it, yet I can prove that because of waterboarding we broke a man who gave up terror plots and fellow terrorists. Go back to school boychild. It has been proven before that torture is an unreliable source of imformation, that yes once in a greta while you will get lucky, but msot of the time yuo will get nothing but wrong information, if naything at all. Show Me Where I can Find that Torture Doesn't Work! if it has anything to do with cable "news" it's unreliable. if it comes from Time, Newsweek etc it's unreliable. if it comes from military or white house staff I'll believe it. |
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Go back to school boychild. It has been proven before that torture is an unreliable source of imformation, that yes once in a greta while you will get lucky, but msot of the time yuo will get nothing but wrong information, if naything at all. Reverting to name calling? Interesting. Thanks for giving me the win. Broke Mccain in Vietnam as he admits in "Faith of My Fathers" saying how he gave his ship's name, squadron, and target in his autobiography simply as they threated to stop his medical treatment and it broke Khalid Sheik Mohammed. It works and has worked plenty of times. And yet it has failed many more thousands of times than it has worked. |
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Go back to school boychild. It has been proven before that torture is an unreliable source of imformation, that yes once in a greta while you will get lucky, but msot of the time yuo will get nothing but wrong information, if naything at all. Reverting to name calling? Interesting. Thanks for giving me the win. Broke Mccain in Vietnam as he admits in "Faith of My Fathers" saying how he gave his ship's name, squadron, and target in his autobiography simply as they threated to stop his medical treatment and it broke Khalid Sheik Mohammed. It works and has worked plenty of times. And yet it has failed many more thousands of times than it has worked. According to what proof? |
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go back to school or simply look it up and read. I am not going to waste my time doing what you should be doing ins tead.
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I am outta hear for now, until some more people are wiling to come in and discuss this rationally.
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He doesn't have any Proof! I would rather Live on the side of error
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go back to school or simply look it up and read. I am not going to waste my time doing what you should be doing ins tead. Nice cop-out |
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I am outta hear for now, until some more people are wiling to come in and discuss this rationally. lol rationally, coming from someone who decided to resort to name-calling. |
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it is unreliable at times...but making someone really uncomfortable also makes it harder to tell lies. Any sort of interrogation is just as unreliable. The truth is, in the intelligence world, there are no definate reliable answers. Looking at the big picture, when dealing with horrible situations sometimes you have to do horrible things. This is reality. You can't be nice and respectful to someone while you are shooting him can you? It is good to make sure we dont get out of hand but just understand, kindness is weakness to these people. Why do you think they are so gruesome with us? Either we do what we have to do, or we don't do anything at all. We can't decide whether or not torture is reliable. We are just sitting in our chairs in the comfort of our living room trying to decide how someone on the ground should do their job. We can talk about this all we want. We should still keep a weary eye and make sure the government doesn't get out of control. We would be unwise to think we could do better from our perspective.
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it is unreliable at times...but making someone really uncomfortable also makes it harder to tell lies. Any sort of interrogation is just as unreliable. The truth is, in the intelligence world, there are no definate reliable answers. Looking at the big picture, when dealing with horrible situations sometimes you have to do horrible things. This is reality. You can't be nice and respectful to someone while you are shooting him can you? It is good to make sure we dont get out of hand but just understand, kindness is weakness to these people. Why do you think they are so gruesome with us? Either we do what we have to do, or we don't do anything at all. We can't decide whether or not torture is reliable. We are just sitting in our chairs in the comfort of our living room trying to decide how someone on the ground should do their job. We can talk about this all we want. We should still keep a weary eye and make sure the government doesn't get out of control. We would be unwise to think we could do better from our perspective.
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it is unreliable at times...but making someone really uncomfortable also makes it harder to tell lies. Any sort of interrogation is just as unreliable. The truth is, in the intelligence world, there are no definate reliable answers. Looking at the big picture, when dealing with horrible situations sometimes you have to do horrible things. This is reality. You can't be nice and respectful to someone while you are shooting him can you? It is good to make sure we dont get out of hand but just understand, kindness is weakness to these people. Why do you think they are so gruesome with us? Either we do what we have to do, or we don't do anything at all. We can't decide whether or not torture is reliable. We are just sitting in our chairs in the comfort of our living room trying to decide how someone on the ground should do their job. We can talk about this all we want. We should still keep a weary eye and make sure the government doesn't get out of control. We would be unwise to think we could do better from our perspective. I agree insofar that making someone uncomfortable can help with interrogation. But there is a differenace between making someone uncomfortable, adn torturing them. I also agree that we woud be fools to simply think that we know betetr and can do better than everybody else. however, beter minds than mine have researched the topic of torture and they ahve stated that it is an unreliable source. Also common sense alone suggests that some would be willing to say ANYTHING to stop it from ahppening. And what if that person knows nothing about what you want? And in all honosty what is the likelihood of us finding someone who is in the know generally speaking? |
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Besides that just like we train our elite military how to resist torture other nations do the same. It is a sissy boy way of doing things and it should not stand for grown men to be allowed to act that immature. Sorry guys
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Besides that just like we train our elite military how to resist torture other nations do the same. It is a sissy boy way of doing things and it should not stand for grown men to be allowed to act that immature. Sorry guys How should we interrogate captured terrorists and militants on the battlefield who are willing to kill themselves, women, and children then? Asking politely? Over hot chocolate and cookies? |
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people may say anything to prevent from being tortured, but what they say would be less elaborate and easier to disprove. There are better ways of getting information, but if the guy on the ground honestly believes this needs to be done, so be it. If some guy winds up truamatized to get information that we need for our guys on the ground then i see that as acceptable. I do agree, there are more reliable ways but sometimes you need info fast. sometimes the enemy won't blunder on his own or accidently release information. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. That is all im saying. It should be a last resort but it shouldn't be banned.
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Besides that just like we train our elite military how to resist torture other nations do the same. It is a sissy boy way of doing things and it should not stand for grown men to be allowed to act that immature. Sorry guys it is horrible, immature is an understatement, but sometimes, and i mean SOMETIMES, a necessary evil. |
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Here is the big problem. The Japanese were brought up on charges for doing this to our soldiers in WWII. Now the administration is saying it should be ok. Then their is a big debate over it. When this administration is gone it will most likely be illegal again. The people who performed these things will then be in a situation were they could be prosecuted. Bush is the one that should be held responsible in that case but the high up's never are. Just the average Joe gets tossed in jail or tossed out. When things like this are not black and white the people lowest on the chart pay the most. |
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Besides that just like we train our elite military how to resist torture other nations do the same. It is a sissy boy way of doing things and it should not stand for grown men to be allowed to act that immature. Sorry guys How should we interrogate captured terrorists and militants on the battlefield who are willing to kill themselves, women, and children then? Asking politely? Over hot chocolate and cookies?  that might just work, it would shock the sh*t out them that is for sure....lol
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