Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: NOW THIS IS REAL TORTURE
Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:31 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:33 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. I'd Rather Water Board Someone than sit down with them Over a Cup of Tea. Who says you have to do either one?

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:35 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. I'd Rather Water Board Someone than sit down with them Over a Cup of Tea. Who says you have to do either one? Well, since you aren't allowed to play loud music, sleep deprive, yell, or waterboard, what are you allowed to do to interrogate captured terrorists? These people are willing to die for their cause, I'm sure offering them tea would open them up to spill their guts. Ridiculous.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:35 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do.

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:36 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. Like Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed his plots and members of cells? We train our own Special Forces and CIA members in these tactics to prepare them to similar tactics should they be captured.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:39 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place.

boredinaz06 Joined Sun 10/15/06 Posts: 22764	Sun 02/17/08 03:40 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:41 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. Like Khalid Sheik Mohammed confessed his plots and members of cells? We train our own Special Forces and CIA members in these tactics to prepare them to similar tactics should they be captured. and every last single one of them will break if held under torture long enough. I have had some minor training in it while I was in the service, so believe me Iknwo what I am talking about.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Sun 02/17/08 03:43 PM
What a sick world we live in that we would even want to be like a terrorist. Animalistic and barbaric like a terrorist. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard then that and should not be a condoner nor a perpetrator of these crimes. When will men ever grow up. I still see all the little boys saying ....HE STARTED IT!!!!

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:44 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place. Again, all I need to say is Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

boredinaz06 Joined Sun 10/15/06 Posts: 22764	Sun 02/17/08 03:45 PM
What a sick world we live in that we would even want to be like a terrorist. Animalistic and barbaric like a terrorist. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard then that and should not be a condoner nor a perpetrator of these crimes. When will men ever grow up. I still see all the little boys saying ....HE STARTED IT!!!! I know I know this is all just Propaganda BS.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:45 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent?

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:46 PM
What a sick world we live in that we would even want to be like a terrorist. Animalistic and barbaric like a terrorist. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard then that and should not be a condoner nor a perpetrator of these crimes. When will men ever grow up. I still see all the little boys saying ....HE STARTED IT!!!! Thank You dragoness, I concur completely.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:48 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place. Again, all I need to say is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Yeah yuor bat hit the nail once. how many times did yo swing and miss, or worse yet, swing and hit an innocent bystander?

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:48 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent? Would you be willing to put a piece of crap in your mouth to show you really believe what you are saying despite direct proof that because Khalid Sheik Mohammed was broke by waterboarding multiple terrorist plots were averted and terrorists linked to him were captured?

boredinaz06 Joined Sun 10/15/06 Posts: 22764	Sun 02/17/08 03:49 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent? No I wouldn't Volunteer Myself to this! I also Don't Murder People in Vile ways either. nor do I plot to destroy entire Countries.

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:50 PM
theres people like the one above me who don't get it! too many people think we should always take the high road and when dealing with animals who don't understand the value of human life, there is no High Road. when you have marauding predators they need to hunted down and executed. the difference between Human Animals and four legged Animals is the We can Communicate with Each Other, so when a Terrorist is Captured We Have the Ability to do things to Encourage this Individual to Talk.........We Should Use it. Ok here is a suggested test for your theory (and it has been done and proven accurate). We will take you (as an example, nothign personal) and I can garuntee that I can make you sign a statement and admit to some of the vilest and most heinous crimes known to exist, to include raping and sodomizing a little child. Now, we all here know you would not do anything of the sort,and yo would probably be fairly murderous if you caught someone else doing it, that is why I am using it as an example. I garuntee, that with enough torture though that yuo will not only admit, but actually believe that you had done the things I mentioned. This has been proven time and time again. Now with that having been said, you can not honostly believe ANYTHING that has been admitted under torture because after so long a human being is going to say anything and do anything they can to stop the torture. The so-called special forces hero who will not crack does not exist. It cracked Khalid Sheik Mohammed who gave up terror plots and names of his fellow terrorists, which led to further arrests. once in a great while you will hit the nail when swinging with a baseball bat yes, but most of the time you simply miss. And the once in a great while stats do not justofy all the cruelty and torture upon al lthe misses. Stopping planes from dropping out of the sky over the Atlantic or LA getting hit like New York does not justify waterboarding and not playing nice to get Khalid to break? How I hope no one like you ever comes to a leadership role in this country. When you can not trust the results of the process of information gatehring, no it does not justify using those methods. If I were to tie you to a table, slather you in honey, and open a box of ants, I garuntee you would be screaming to sign anything I wanted you to sign. The same thing goes for waterboarding and any other form of torture. You would also be wiling to stand up in court and state that everything you singed and stated was true and accurate just to avoid haveing to go through that abuse again. So no, the means does not justify the emd in the case of torture. So, in other words, in order to remain on a 'moral highground' you are quite alright with allowing top terrorists holding information and allowing us to be hit by further terrorist attacks allowing hundreds if not more civilians to be killed as was planned by Khalid Sheik Mohammed before he broke under harsh interrogation tactics? Congratulations. Condemning innocents in order to be a nice guy to bad guys. I do not condone allowing the "top terrorists" to sit on this information, no. However as I stated before "ANYTHING THAT IS STATED UNDER TORTURE CAN NOT BE TRUSTED AS ACCURATE" The only thing torture can be trusted to do is cause soemone to say what yuo want to hear in the first place. Lets say you have person A who you believe has the information on when where and how al queida is going to attack the usa. You torture him for however long until you get what you think is the truth out of hin, because it sounds right with what you already "know". You prosecute and plan fo this attack. A week prior to the attack the white house is decimated because you were planning for something that did not exist, because you had the wrong guy in the first place. You need to understand that the human body, when subjected to the pain that torture proveds will do NAYTHING to prevent that pain from happening again, up to and including admittign to something you did not do in the first place. Again, all I need to say is Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Yeah yuor bat hit the nail once. how many times did yo swing and miss, or worse yet, swing and hit an innocent bystander? That's a hypothetical, saying that an innocent bystander could be hit. You are using sensationalism, non-realism to back your side up. You cannot prove it, yet I can prove that because of waterboarding we broke a man who gave up terror plots and fellow terrorists.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:52 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent? Would you be willing to put a piece of crap in your mouth to show you really believe what you are saying despite direct proof that because Khalid Sheik Mohammed was broke by waterboarding multiple terrorist plots were averted and terrorists linked to him were captured? If you are not willing to asnwer the question then it must be understood that you are NOT willing to do so. And thus if you are nto willing to do so, then why should we subject someone else to it ont he CHANCE that we might get somethign useful, or the likelihood that we will harmaninnocent bystander.

daniel48706 Joined Fri 03/16/07 Posts: 8566	Sun 02/17/08 03:53 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent? No I wouldn't Volunteer Myself to this! I also Don't Murder People in Vile ways either. nor do I plot to destroy entire Countries. So again I ask, if you are not willing to undergo this abuse yourself , then why should we subject someone else to it? the information gathered is wrong moret imes than it is right.

Starsailor2851 Joined Mon 07/02/07 Posts: 1430	Sun 02/17/08 03:54 PM
like you said there is a big difference between torture and interrogation. However, an act is not considered torture simply because of who does it. Torture is torture no matter who uses the method. Yes some method so if torture are more brutal than others, but that does not mean less brutal forms of torture are acceptable. Also keep in mind, just because we are america and they are not, doe snot mean that waterboarding is nt torture(as an example) if we apply it, and it IS torture if they apply it. There is one word for that: hipocrite. And eys most politicians in my opinion are prime examples of hypocracy, but that does not make them right. to Me Water Boarding is NOT Torture! WE (the USA) do NOT CUt off Haeds, Burn People alive, bury them so only their Heads are Showing then Stone them to Death, WE do NOT Give our Women Lashing for showing Skin to Me Those Things are Torture. Ok you do not think that causing someone to think they are drowning, and forcing their bodies to react as if they WERE drowning is not torture? NO! Would you be willing to undergo this process yourself in order to prove you are innocent? I garuntee you will be saying anything that is wanted to be heard if you do. you do realize that any Agent in any Agency has to go through all the tactics that they will use on people right. all recruits in their respective Academies have to experience first hand the tactics they will use short of shooting each other with bullets. so with that the Interrogators Know what these people are going through. yes I do know this; I volunteered for some training in it while I was in the military. NOW, answer my question, please. Would YOU be willing to subject YOURSELF to waterboarding for an undetermined amount of time because someone thinks you are guilty and you know you are innocent? Just to prove that you are innocent? No I wouldn't Volunteer Myself to this! I also Don't Murder People in Vile ways either. nor do I plot to destroy entire Countries. So again I ask, if you are not willing to undergo this abuse yourself , then why should we subject someone else to it? the information gathered is wrong moret imes than it is right. According to you and propagandists.