That makes no sense.

i know ..i hoped it would be missed..

I allways vote and I allways pay my taxes and yes I am as american as moms apple pie

I dont think its up to madman to post anything other than what he feels like posting. To me anti-americans are those folks who burn flags, bomb buildings, kill innocent people because they happen to be American, etc...

Well let's see.
You don't seem to think that the first amendment should be applied to anyone who disagrees with the government. And since at least one person was incarcerated for nothing more than wearing and anti-bush t-shirt I'd say Bush doesn't think that right should apply either.
4th amendment has been tromped into the ground by the patriot act.
5th is somewhat questionable but I'll give it to you for lack of info
6&7 concerning trial rights has be stretched pretty slim but I'll give you those anyway.
#8 cruel and unusual punishment well that ones out the window in anything having to do with the war. Along with the Geneva conventions.
#10 rights reserved power to the people. Well that's the right that's being really squashed that he's complaining about.

So we have some of those rights. But, some are gone and others are obviously disappearing or are in jeopardy. How long shall we we wait before we complain about it?

Amen, cute

America is based on a premise that if the people don't like the government or feel it is ineffective then it is time to tear it down and make a new one. Based one this premise alone we have all the rights in the world to dispute, disagree, rant, rave, and hopefully act on the problems with our government. We are for the people by the people and the people need to stop being door mats and accepting the screwing we are getting and rise up. Change is important and we are the change.

Madison is expressing his dissatisfaction and he is ALL American doing it.

Couldn't agree more Dragoness... you go girl!

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair. ~H.L. Mencken

Moral cowardice that keeps us from speaking our minds is as dangerous to this country as irresponsible talk. The right way is not always the popular and easy way. Standing for right when it is unpopular is a true test of moral character.
~Margaret Chase Smith

There are two visions of America. One precedes our founding fathers and finds its roots in the harshness of our puritan past. It is very suspicious of freedom, uncomfortable with diversity, hostile to science, unfriendly to reason, contemptuous of personal autonomy. It sees America as a religious nation. It views patriotism as allegiance to God. It secretly adores coercion and conformity. Despite our constitution, despite the legacy of the Enlightenment, it appeals to millions of Americans and threatens our freedom.
-The other vision finds its roots in the spirit of our founding revolution and in the leaders of this nation who embraced the age of reason. It loves freedom, encourages diversity, embraces science and affirms the dignity and rights of every individual. It sees America as a moral nation, neither completely religious nor completely secular. It defines patriotism as love of country and of the people who make it strong. It defends all citizens against unjust coercion and irrational conformity.
-This second vision is our vision. It is the vision of a free society. We must be bold enough to proclaim it and strong enough to defend it against all its enemies.
~Rabbi Sherwin Wine

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. ~Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually. ~James Baldwin

Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive.
~Henry Steele Commager

What? I never said that someone's first amendment rights should be silenced. Already you started with an outright lie, can't wait to see how the rest of the ridiculous response will go. Prove they were arrested just for the Bush t-shirt and nothing more at all, and tell me how Bush ordered the arrest.

Nothing more that you said is anything but rhetoric. You do not provide examples how, just say that they are being crushed by the weight of our evil government. Prove me wrong, with real facts. Nothing you said has any weight or factual points to it.

DaveyB.......


The government is America. The American people have free elections and we put those elected officials into office, which is our government. Therefore, the government represents the people. The government is America. You cannot separate America from the government; it is one and the same.

MADMAN........


charmed life? "Me think the lady doth protest too much."

Reminder to all:

Let's discuss the topic, not other members.

This is only part of my original post, it seems that I am being edited/censored, even though I refrain from indecent language or threatening others. In light of this, Im done posting. If I cant express myself freely and openly, then whats the point!
Goodby

the government is not america ..the people are ..... the government are those misrepresenting our wants and needs to line their own pockets and their friends the war in iraq a joke a fraud to pilfer billions of dollars from our pockets if we were so worried about homeland security why were the borders left wide open and still some what are what a bad joke that is being played on us as families lose their sons and daughters in a winless war companies given government contracts in iraq without having to bid on them simply because they have ties to the government its right there before our eyes and no one is doing anything KBR and other companies have been found guilty of over charging and still theyre in iraq providing contaminated water to our troops and blowing up eighty thousand dollar trucks because they have a flat tire ..we need to clear the slate of these generations of scam artist and frauds who have too many friends in the government as far as a two party system well they both suck we need to start a peoples party one who is elected by the people and reports back to the people not these fat ass delegates who spend alot of time sucking ass and we need a military that is not comprised of national guard national guard is for homeland security and disaster alot of the reasons katrina victims didnt get any help was because the national guard was in iraq and the government could really give two sh*ts about you and i all they care about is the constant flow of cash in their pockets lets face it back in the day the government didnt free the blacks they just found a way to enslave us all and dont even get me started on the health care system they can piss away billions on a winless war but not come up with the money for a universal health care package ...wake up people the people need to stand up and march on washington rather than go home and watch the boob tube waiting for someone else to do it ..theres a reason for the name boob tube ....jmo ..dont like them ...dont care ... oh by the way bin laden is not iraq and if i were him i would be over here watching the idiots on tv looking for me

OH Dear God:

Do we agree on something?


Lindyy

OH, forgot one little snag:

It is one thing to be Anti-American;

And another to be Anti-America. The countries and people who hate America as a country as a whole and what it stands for.


Lindyy

Forget what I just said, it is redundant. Sorry people.

Lindyy