Then that is where we differ, I have always been taught that America was "by the people" and "for the people", not the government that runs it. It is my belief that our current government does not represent it's people at this time. And it's actions are not representative of the feelings and morals that the American people in general hold.

I agree Dave.The government is not our country.To many foreigners cannot seperate our governments actions from our people.I love America,our people show great spirit but our government has forgotten who put them in office and who pays their salary.
I think term limits should be set on Congressman just like they are on the president.This way we have people who actually are there for love of Americas people ,not career politicians pushing the pork.

Yes, our govt is the problem in this whole world today, they had an emergency meeting at the UN,(one world Order Headquarters )recently. It seems that Russia has warned our govt ,about trying to set up nuclear missiles all around Russian borders, but our govt does not know how to take NO for an answer, So I hear that Russia is preparing for War against us because of what our govt is doing to them. It seems that ours news will never report any of this, but thanks to the internet, the news will get out anyway. The Zionist Gentiles and the Zionist jews seem to be dead set on destroying this country, but ,I think that too many of us are onto their schemes and they will not be able to pull it off. But we Have to Stop all the wars immediately ,before this Country is turned into a smoking ruins in about 45 minutes. Russia has given our govt lots of warnings now, but they refuse to be peaceful. The Whole world has been trying to warn us that our Zionist govt is the PROBLEM. Our ONLY HOPE IS TO STOP THE WARS NOW!!!Bring all our guys home from everywhere they are in the WORLD!!

cutlittledevil and daveb........

I am not being sarcastic, but if you have ever studied Civics, you would change your stance and realize that America is the government. Americans, that is, we the people elect government officials. Therefore, the government represents the people. The people, America and the government are one and the same. These are the cold hard facts.

I suspect that you two are getting into the realms of idealism and/or philosophy. If one wants to enter your world of idealism and/or philosophy, if you disagree with the way the government is running things, then yes, you can say that the government doesn't represent you or the American people since the government isn't adhering to your wishes.

However, in conjunction with the above, the world doesn't operate on idealism or philosophy. Sure, we would be better off, if it did, but it doesn't. Therefore, in the real world of cold hard facts our President, our Contress, which we the people elected into office are our government and they represent us. Therefore, America and the government are one and the same.

A government can misrepresent it's people, ie. babyshrub and his cohorts are misrepresenting what America stands for today as we speak. Have been for years. This is the problem with people in general. Evil will not identify itself as evil, one has to watch what they do to know they are evil. We have watched for 8 years now and the result is evil personfied.

I will give the people who voted for him a pass since they probably did not realize what they were doing but he has taught many of us a valuable lesson.

We the people are this country. Not the government. We are the American spirit. Not the elected official who misrepresent us. We can take control back and we will if there are enough of us to see the err of our ways in the past.

America was founded on revolters. The constructors explicitly included clauses in our creation that said, if we the people see our government is not speaking and acting for us, we disassemble it and recreate it. That is why the people are the government of this country.

That is why when baby shrub said he cared not if the people liked what he did, he was going to do it anyway, that was treasonous to us. Not a show of strenth but a violation of this government which is the people of this country.

Only about 5% of the people make things happen, another small percentage of the people watch things happen, AND the REST of the people run around saying: What's Happening, What's Happening??

If you're content with that, then enjoy. I for one do not believe that we actually elect our officials any more, they are chosen for us. I am not content with that situation and do not consider it unamerican to feel that way. The fact is everything in our history tells me that that is part of what defines us as Americans.

I agree

I agree. Everything said above is not only correct, but very astitute.

Daveb..... As far as my being content with the way things are, I am not. That is one of the reasons I always vote; I keep hoping that my vote will bring some change. However, I hope I have made you realize the difference between idealism and reality.

I do agree with that part of your post wherein you state we actually do not elect our officials anymore. That is correct since the only people we are permitted to vote for are the ones that the officials of the Demoratic and Republican Parties nominate. Look at this business of delegates on the part of both parties. It is akin to the Electoral College in that the vote of the majority means nothing.

Can you imagine working at the following Company? It has a little over 500 employees with the following statistics:

29 have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud
19 have been accused of writing bad checks
117 have bankrupted at least two businesses
3 have been arrested for assault
71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
8 have been arrested for shoplifting
21 are current defendants in lawsuits
84 were stopped for drunk driving

Can you guess which organization this is?

It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group that perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line.

Then I fail to understand how you can say that our government is America because we elected them. When you freely admit that we did not. I see America as it's people the officials who laud over us are the ones whom I sae as anti-Americans. They are the ones destroying the ideals that made people want to be Americans in the first place.

Yes so now with another election approaching and the candadites paradeing around as if in some type of MEANINGLESS dog show and the best bred and the prettiest will be ordained king of america for 4 years and like a dog he will be led around by the elite special interests that put him there.

WTF!

FBI Gives Private Contractors 'Shoot to Kill' Powers
by moonwolf | February 10, 2008 at 01:43 pm | 151 views | add comment
Infragard Seal
by moonwolf
4 days ago | 4360 views

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The FBI has a new set of eyes and ears, and they're being told to protect their infrastructure at any cost. They can even kill without repercussion. Welcome Infragard the private corporate spies and police to your workplace and neighborhood, but realize they answer only to their handlers at the FBI, and only after the fact, their communications are outside the purvue of the Freedom of Information Act and members can shoot to kill with impunity.


Today, more than 23,000 representatives of private industry are working quietly with the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does -- and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to "shoot to kill" in the event of martial law. InfraGard is "a child of the FBI," says Michael Hershman, the chairman of the advisory board of the InfraGard National Members Alliance and CEO of the Fairfax Group, an international consulting firm.

InfraGard started in Cleveland back in 1996, when the private sector there cooperated with the FBI to investigate cyber threats.

"Then the FBI cloned it," says Phyllis Schneck, chairman of the board of directors of the InfraGard National Members Alliance, and the prime mover behind the growth of InfraGard over the last several years.

InfraGard itself is still an FBI operation, with FBI agents in each state overseeing the local InfraGard chapters. (There are now eighty-six of them.) The alliance is a nonprofit organization of private sector InfraGard members.

"We are the owners, operators, and experts of our critical infrastructure, from the CEO of a large company in agriculture or high finance to the guy who turns the valve at the water utility," says Schneck, who by day is the vice president of research integration at Secure Computing.

"At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector," the InfraGard website states. "InfraGard chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories."

In November 2001, InfraGard had around 1,700 members. As of late January, InfraGard had 23,682 members, according to its website, www.infragard.net, which adds that "350 of our nation's Fortune 500 have a representative in InfraGard."

To join, each person must be sponsored by "an existing InfraGard member, chapter, or partner organization." The FBI then vets the applicant. On the application form, prospective members are asked which aspect of the critical infrastructure their organization deals with. These include: agriculture, banking and finance, the chemical industry, defense, energy, food, information and telecommunications, law enforcement, public health, and transportation.

FBI Director Robert Mueller addressed an InfraGard convention on August 9, 2005. At that time, the group had less than half as many members as it does today. "To date, there are more than 11,000 members of InfraGard," he said. "From our perspective that amounts to 11,000 contacts . . . and 11,000 partners in our mission to protect America." He added a little later, "Those of you in the private sector are the first line of defense."

He urged InfraGard members to contact the FBI if they "note suspicious activity or an unusual event." And he said they could sic the FBI on "disgruntled employees who will use knowledge gained on the job against their employers."

In an interview with InfraGard after the conference, which is featured prominently on the InfraGard members' website, Mueller says: "It's a great program."

The ACLU is not so sanguine.

"There is evidence that InfraGard may be closer to a corporate TIPS program, turning private-sector corporations -- some of which may be in a position to observe the activities of millions of individual customers -- into surrogate eyes and ears for the FBI," the ACLU warned in its August 2004 report The Surveillance-Industrial Complex: How the American Government Is Conscripting Businesses and Individuals in the Construction of a Surveillance Society.

InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public. Its communications with the FBI and Homeland Security are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act under the "trade secrets" exemption, its website says. And any conversation with the public or the media is supposed to be carefully rehearsed.

"The interests of InfraGard must be protected whenever presented to non-InfraGard members," the website states. "During interviews with members of the press, controlling the image of InfraGard being presented can be difficult. Proper preparation for the interview will minimize the risk of embarrassment. . . . The InfraGard leadership and the local FBI representative should review the submitted questions, agree on the predilection of the answers, and identify the appropriate interviewee. . . . Tailor answers to the expected audience. . . . Questions concerning sensitive information should be avoided."

This article was too long to publish here so follow the link "Go to original story" below.

Source: alternet.org

their website is infragard.net check it

I used the wrong words. I should have said we do not get a choice as to the people we want to elect. The Democratic and Republican parties put out the candidates and we elect from them. We need more independents or laws giving candidates free air space. That way the people who run for office won't need a lot of money.

Discussion with you seems pretty pointless when you simply change your stance when you've been called out for passing nonsense.

I'm done.

This information be it true, I always verify, and I have not yet but, if it is, this and the email I got today clarifying that babyshrub could claim that the upcoming election is a homeland security risk and stop the elections and claim himself pres for an indeterminate amount of time, which, I have not veriefied yet but if true, man are we in trouble. We the people is no more and we are going to have to prepare to take our government back.

The electoral votes choose not us.

Have to agree with you here the one with the most money to get the votes will winn and the votes cast by the people make no difference what so ever.

Please don't pick on Madisonman He is only trying to help us get our Constitutional Government BACK, which has been overthrown by the Zionists,and the Talmudists, and the SATANISTS,etc. I don't think Madison man is trying to be vicious or demeaning to us, just trying to get us to think. But some of us get pretty rough against the gentleman.