Drew, I touched the whole quote that I read.

I have another response to you.

This thread is on the move and rapidly taking its own shape.

I can't address it all, and don't have that intention either.

I just speak from my heart out of my treasures, as do you, myfriend.

The discussion is quite interesting though.

Creativesouls furtherances are giving it more texture that is not what I was intially touching on. That';s another matter.

In essence the Father died as well...It is called the trilogy. But I will save that for a later time I had to start you off with the basics first

If you choose to follow Christ huh?

Would not that really be following the hearsay of what Christianity has become... much more so than Christ?

Peace to all...

Until next time...

wouldee...

Ya know, after I wrote omega, I knew better, yet I left it...

Peace my friend...

Let go of the words... hold onto the light.

Oh i will...something i agree with you on!

Isaac, I so look forward to your moving past the basics. I sure do hope I can keep up.

:)

Drew

isaac...

Base not your opinion on what you may believe you know about me based on this thread...

Peace be with you...

Just to be clear...I don't wish to deny anyone their faith...Hey for a moment even Harry Potter had me buying the magic of Hagrid...........:)

Drew

Seriously--I am glad all of this was civil. I mean that.

CS -- If I may submit my own (admittedly biased) opinion into the mix --

The way I see it:

A character in a book is obligated to operate under no "rules" other than those which the author imposes within the parameters of that storyline....

In my opinion....modern day christianity has made a mockery of the true followers of Christ. So, to answer that question..no. I choose to follow Christ and I've been blessed in countless ways since I turned to Him.

:)

Lex... my friend...

You visit my threads so seldomly....

Yeah I know, you can't stand the topics...

Great point!!!

Peace...

I was born embracing all the gray areas of life, Drew.

I tested all the waters and lived the "life" in my youth.

I have lived many lives, Drew.

More than any man ought to. That is for my conscience to bear, and bear it I shall, in the end...inexcusably.

But it is under the blood of Christ now, and has been for some 20 years now.

I have pulled many out of the fire that knew me before and know me as changed by Christ. That is not something for you to know, but to be told of only. It doesn't affect you or your life or your choices, only mine for the sake of our conversaion.

Which brings me to my point to you, my friend.

It is not gray for me anymore. It is black and white.

Life has yielded me definition and the knowledge of all that is, this way and that, but not knowledge altogether. Just what I need to be what I must and pass through here a finished work.

Like you, I have made choices in life and benefitted by them.

Some have proved futile exercises in continual reiteration.

One of them has changed my life for ever. Guess what that might be!

Everyone here knows of my faith, that has been at JSH for some time. It is no secret.

Nor do I pound it out.

I fill in the gaps when I believe it appropriate.

My passions are for the best of Jesus' testimony, not for self aggrandisement or adulation.

I know better.

HOW DID THIS:



Turn into a discusion about Jesus?

After the great flood, and the Sodom & Gomorrah episodes (just to name a couple of the biggies) somehow the sacrifice of a human god, just doesn't seem comforting or even repentant, actually.

did you ever see that movie (a classic) A Christmas Story, where the mom makes the kip suck on a bar of soap when he swears? At one point she sticks it in her own mouth and immediately removes it and rinses her mouth.

Kinda like a god in human form, just checkin it out, but leaving before all the good stuff in life happens.

Nope, makes no sense at all. Why would a god command us not to kill and then totally show us the righteousness in it?

I think that's what Creative was referring to.

Nicely put.

Michael,

I love you my brother.

I know your heart is real and you have a hunger for truth and love.

There is never a doubt in my mind or heart about your sincerity.

Wouldee, I don't need a testimony though I am not in the least bit offended by one. I am glad that you have found something in faith. That is something that I will not/cannot find in that there is no evidence whatsover that faith in anything outside of what is hopeful for humanity is worth much of anything. I, unlike you, don't need a diety to instruct me when it comes to being good at my job, good to my family, good to my fellow man. I'd rather know and rest secure in the fact that everyone I've ever helped in life, I did because I wanted to...not because I thought it was my "father" expected of me. So, who is truly free?

Drew

So, let me get this straight. Did the Romans murder Jesus - or God?

Drew,

It is not about being free, my brother.
I do all that you do as well and live well. Hell, I even love 30 yr old scotch as long as its Glenlivet.

And dipping a cigar in it to sitr it is appropriate enough when served up!

I drive way too fast and put my son and my friend in harms way when I encourage them with racing, the way we do. ODD?

To me, its about talking to God . So it was at first. I wasn;t looking to duck a damn thing, just wanted to talk to Him.

Lost a wife over it. She was in love with the wild man, not this God praising whack job that had a silly look in his eyes all of a sudden. I couldn't see that through all of the joy I was given. Too bad that you have no clue about how full life can be when you add something few apprehend to it.

I don't suppose you are lacking anything, just anaware of more to be had, should you choose to dare the endeavor by hearing what He has to say to you out of love. No doubt, He won't offend and interrupt your peace of mind with a greater peace unless you ask him to.

He is quite the gentleman, although He gets a bad rap on that one, undeservedly so.

You won't ever hear me beat my chest like Tarzan over things others say I have done for Him. I didn't do anything for Him, but He has allowed me to be there when He moves!! Something you have yet to experience. Quite humbling.

I bend over ass backwards for people I love too! and for some that despitefully use me for being generous too.

Life is about love , my friend. No one corners the market on good works.

Perhaps we are not as adversarial as you imagine.

I am in a club that embarrasses you, but I am not the club that you find so gratingly intolerable.

Perhaps a little tempering of the mortar builds a better house, but not all of us have lived in stormy weather to the degree that I have.

Sometimes, Drew, it is good to reflect on a priveleged life far from hell and reserve judgement about those among you that may have tasted some things quite foreign and all too unpalettable to civil society and yet come away with knowing how far the cliff of no return is only to be mocked as a delusional patsy.

I assure you, there is much more to life than your experience can fathom.

Perhaps if you hit upon a hardship or a catastrophy or a disasterous dilemma that threatened your life or those that you love, would you refuse the help if God sent a Christian warrior to aid and comfort your hardship?

There are a lot more beasts in the field than most realize, and few to tame them and keep the guard over the rest.

hhmmmm...........

That sounds like most parents that I know. Try and teach, but don't do as they preach?

Such as smoking, drinking, cussing, lieing, so many other things. The list goes on and on.

Kat

I may be simple minded ... but I don't think it is god that is killing the innocents or actually breaking the rules we were given free will and I am sure that it makes him really sad when we are so bad .. this world is a confusing place that is a fact .. and I too wonder about all those books of the bible that the cannons cut .. I also have to have a belief in something greater than myself .. god is a loving but just god and people will answer for what they have done it may not be fire and brimstone... I think that a lot of churchology has done more to create hostility which is ironic in a faith based on love and the teachings of a man call Jesus... I am however really glad to see some serious soul searching going on because your personal relationship with the diety of your choice is your own.. good thoughts good questions

CS -- I just wanted to interject something here -- in all honesty, I have to confess that I have read and enjoyed many of your threads in this forum....and have always been impressed by your ability to express concepts and ideas and questions in such a non-exclusionary way -- there are some amazing and wonderful thinkers running through these subjects, and you are at the top of my list....

Please don't think that I can't stand the topics! Nothing could be further from the truth; the reality is, I feel like I have learned a lot from you and the subjects you raise, and the people who reply to those subjects.

Many times, the only reason I don't reply is because I don't feel I have anything particularly relevant to add -- I like to think I know when to sit back and just absorb -- but it never has anything to do with any distaste for the subject matter!

The fact that I am not a believer, in my opinion, in no way precludes me from learning from others who are, or who might be, or who aren't, but who don't disbelieve in quite the same fashion as I do....!