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Topic: questions that believers are afraid to answer - part 2
funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 06:57 PM
no what you are doing is called "An Argument from Ignorance" (is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that a premise is true only because it has not been proven false or false until proven true.) In fact, one of the most common forms of this is " * Something is currently unexplained or insufficiently understood or explained, so it is not (or must not be) true" hey "Chazster"..I'm just going by what believers say that God is..that God is unseen and incomprehensible to the human senses can you name something else with those qualities that exist beyond the mind or delusion I don't know of everything in existance.. the only thing I can think of right now is Dark Matter. sorry Chazster... Dark Matter is a hypothetical form of matter .. Yes it is, some people believe it exists but it cant be proven and since it neither reflects or absorbs light it cannot be seen. It also is an unknown composition. Basically they dont really understand it and cant see it. Chazster ..Dark Matter hypothetically having an effect on the universe is no different than God floating around having an effect on the universe ..you are merely substituting Dark Matter as God...it's all theory

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 01/27/08 06:59 PM
no its laziness. Again your are misusing the term delusional again. I think you need to start finding out the meanings of words before you try using them. You just make yourself look bad. Just because I am not going to get it doesn't mean its not there. I remember you calling feralcatlady delusional before and I don't feel like wasting time searching through these forums. geez Chazster...you call it being lazy and I call it you being delusional ..so find the evidence and prove otherwise ... There is the proof right there. You are calling me delusional for not finding you proof, but a a lack of proof doesnt make things delusional. I gave you the psychiatric definition of a delusion and you are just ignoring it. Game Set Match.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 07:04 PM
that's called a phenomenom Well, if you’re trying to do things using "pure thought only" then I’d say that the joke’s on you. I don’t believe it’s possible to even think in terms of “pure thought”. Every idea that you conceptualize is a result of your worldly experience right down to the very concept of logic itself. In fact, all we really mean when we say that something is logical is that it fits in with what we are used to experiencing in this universe. So if you’re under the delusion that there exists such a thing as “pure thought” or “pure reason” then you are indeed a delusional person. This is why I chose physics over philosophy. There can be no such thing as ‘pure philosophy', it must always be tied to our actual experience of life. Therefore why be delusional about it? Become a physicist and face the fact that the only thing that can be studied is what we actually experience, and nothing more. Can you see this Funches? Can you see why it is that the idea of “pure philosophy” is itself a delusional ideal? ..er..Abracadabra..what the heck are you even talking about ..it was you that said that "we certainly can have knowledge of effects without having a clue of what causes them". and I said phenomenoms can happen without having a clue as to what causes them ..sounds reasonable

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Sun 01/27/08 07:07 PM
..Dark Matter hypothetically having an effect on the universe is no different than God floating around having an effect on the universe ..you are merely substituting Dark Matter as God...it's all theory Dark Matter does have an effect on the universe. That’s how we know it’s there!!! We just can’t detect the ‘cause’ of this ‘effect’ yet. So there’s another example of understanding an ‘effect’ without understanding the ‘cause’. If you want to compare God with Dark matter it would be like this,... You see miracles occurring all around you, but there’s no sign of the miracle worker. We don’t even see the miracles in the case of God. All we see are things that fit the predictions of mathematical probabilities and then we hear people calling THOSE ‘miracles’.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 07:09 PM
no its laziness. Again your are misusing the term delusional again. I think you need to start finding out the meanings of words before you try using them. You just make yourself look bad. Just because I am not going to get it doesn't mean its not there. I remember you calling feralcatlady delusional before and I don't feel like wasting time searching through these forums. geez Chazster...you call it being lazy and I call it you being delusional ..so find the evidence and prove otherwise ... There is the proof right there. You are calling me delusional for not finding you proof, but a a lack of proof doesnt make things delusional. I gave you the psychiatric definition of a delusion and you are just ignoring it. Game Set Match. ..er..Chazster instead of wasting time posting the definitions of delusional, that time can be better spent by just getting the proof to show that you're not delusional...instead of just ranting delusionally

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 01/27/08 07:09 PM
no because there are alternate theorys to dark matter. They don't know if it really exists.

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 01/27/08 07:10 PM Edited by Chazster on Sun 01/27/08 07:11 PM
no its laziness. Again your are misusing the term delusional again. I think you need to start finding out the meanings of words before you try using them. You just make yourself look bad. Just because I am not going to get it doesn't mean its not there. I remember you calling feralcatlady delusional before and I don't feel like wasting time searching through these forums. geez Chazster...you call it being lazy and I call it you being delusional ..so find the evidence and prove otherwise ... There is the proof right there. You are calling me delusional for not finding you proof, but a a lack of proof doesnt make things delusional. I gave you the psychiatric definition of a delusion and you are just ignoring it. Game Set Match. ..er..Chazster instead of wasting time posting the definitions of delusional, that time can be better spent by just getting the proof to show that you're not delusional...instead of just ranting delusionally And it would be better use of your time reading a dictionary so you can use terms correctly. Basically all you do is call people names whenever they are right on something. Its not my fault you are incorrect.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 07:10 PM
..Dark Matter hypothetically having an effect on the universe is no different than God floating around having an effect on the universe ..you are merely substituting Dark Matter as God...it's all theory Dark Matter does have an effect on the universe. That’s how we know it’s there!!! We just can’t detect the ‘cause’ of this ‘effect’ yet. So there’s another example of understanding an ‘effect’ without understanding the ‘cause’. If you want to compare God with Dark matter it would be like this,... You see miracles occurring all around you, but there’s no sign of the miracle worker. We don’t even see the miracles in the case of God. All we see are things that fit the predictions of mathematical probabilities and then we hear people calling THOSE ‘miracles’. all I'm saying is that it's just theory and there may be another cause

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 07:12 PM
no its laziness. Again your are misusing the term delusional again. I think you need to start finding out the meanings of words before you try using them. You just make yourself look bad. Just because I am not going to get it doesn't mean its not there. I remember you calling feralcatlady delusional before and I don't feel like wasting time searching through these forums. geez Chazster...you call it being lazy and I call it you being delusional ..so find the evidence and prove otherwise ... There is the proof right there. You are calling me delusional for not finding you proof, but a a lack of proof doesnt make things delusional. I gave you the psychiatric definition of a delusion and you are just ignoring it. Game Set Match. ..er..Chazster instead of wasting time posting the definitions of delusional, that time can be better spent by just getting the proof to show that you're not delusional...instead of just ranting delusionally And it would be better use of your time reading a dictionary so you can use terms correctly. been there done that

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 01/27/08 07:14 PM
apparently not

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Sun 01/27/08 07:15 PM
..er..Abracadabra..what the heck are you even talking about ..it was you that said that "we certainly can have knowledge of effects without having a clue of what causes them". and I said phenomenoms can happen without having a clue as to what causes them ..sounds reasonable Alright, my apologies,... I thought you were implying that I'm getting too phenomenological whilst you’re trying to stay within the realm of pure philosophy. Although, in truth, I think that’s the case anyway. You delusional overly mammary-glanded beast! I know, I know,.... How rude of me! I had to get you back for the republican quip.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sun 01/27/08 07:50 PM
Alright, my apologies,... I thought you were implying that I'm getting too phenomenological whilst you’re trying to stay within the realm of pure philosophy. hey no problem "Abracadabra"... I was thinking geez don't tell me Abracadabra is turning delusional..I was going to blame Chazster

iamgeorgiagirl Joined Tue 12/04/07 Posts: 1288	Mon 01/28/08 11:14 AM
There once was a man called funches On his forum you find lots of punches Some Posters argue and spit And others just will not quit. But reading there I’ve spent many lunches To their answers he says their delusional Even though to me they don’t seem unusual But I’ll try answering his question again Surely goodness and mercy will win. I’ll do my best now which is the usual. I will work very hard to comply Because he just won’t let this die I’ll just have to try and create Something that he will not hate An answer that won’t be a lie. He’s got me thinking a lot So I’ll give everything I’ve got I’ll answer it until I get it right So he’ll have to start a new fight So I’ll just give it one more shot.

iamgeorgiagirl Joined Tue 12/04/07 Posts: 1288	Mon 01/28/08 11:16 AM
The answer is still no...and The other rational explanation is... because no one in the flesh at this time can prove/disprove that The Creator of the universe has a creator, nor can they prove/disprove that the Creator exists nor can anyone prove/disprove that The Creator or the universe have anything to do with the other. "imageorgiagirl" the original question doesn't ask you to prove or disprove if the creator has a creator it just ask you to explain rationally why the same logic wouldn't apply to the creator having a creator OK I guess I'll have to think about it some more then...The same logic wouldn't apply to The Creator because maybe nothing or no one created him...he either evolved himself from matter or always existed period. The creator doesn’t have to be pragmatic nor does he have to fall under the rules of mans rationale or logic.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/28/08 11:21 AM
There once was a man called funches On his forum you find lots of punches Some Posters argue and spit And others just will not quit. But reading there I’ve spent many lunches To their answers he says their delusional Even though to me they don’t seem unusual But I’ll try answering his question again Surely goodness and mercy will win. I’ll do my best now which is the usual. I will work very hard to comply Because he just won’t let this die I’ll just have to try and create Something that he will not hate An answer that won’t be a lie. He’s got me thinking a lot So I’ll give everything I’ve got I’ll answer it until I get it right So he’ll have to start a new fight So I’ll just give it one more shot. in days of olde when men were bold and toilets were not invented they left their load upon the road and walked away contented

iamgeorgiagirl Joined Tue 12/04/07 Posts: 1288	Mon 01/28/08 11:29 AM
in days of olde when men were bold and toilets were not invented they left their load upon the road and walked away contented

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/28/08 11:36 AM
The same logic wouldn't apply to The Creator because maybe nothing or no one created him... well then "imageorgiagirl" ..in that case then nothing or no one created the universe he either evolved himself from matter then that would mean that matter existed before God or always existed period. the original question ask you to go by believer's logic not believers belief unless you are saying that their logic is illogical The creator doesn’t have to be pragmatic nor does he have to fall under the rules of mans rationale or logic. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a creator

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 01/28/08 12:36 PM
But I’ll try answering his question again Surely goodness and mercy will win. ~~~ Is this a thread about logic and reason? Or a war of the holiest season? Trying to prove, convince and behoove that to doubt God would surely be treason! Goodness will likely prevail Reason and logic must fail Funches is dumping alongside the road and won’t even make use of a pail He then walks away refusing to say why plumbing must be a delusion Those who believe are starting to grieve cuz his feces are such an intrusion

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 01/28/08 04:41 PM
Those who believe are starting to grieve cuz his feces are such an intrusion well "Abracadabra"... think of it as compost for their minds

iamgeorgiagirl Joined Tue 12/04/07 Posts: 1288	Mon 01/28/08 05:18 PM Edited by iamgeorgiagirl on Mon 01/28/08 05:30 PM
This thread is a challenge to the religious It asks questions about the prestigious It accuses the religious of being afraid But I for one am not really swayed Even if the object of it is litigious My faith isn’t just simply supposed It’s just recently has been exposed I’m sure there’s been a rational answer But it’s lingering still like a cancer. Even though it now should be closed. According to believers logic God created the universe project It couldn’t have popped out of nothingness And just create itself none the less. But I see not that the believers dodge it. So therefore does the same logic apply? If answered no then he wants to know why. When answered he calls it delusion But I think that it’s just his illusion. This thread very likely won’t die. Don’t want to start a holy war Or see bodies fall to the floor. Truth as it were will prevail And the bull spit will pale. If you don’t care there’s the door. Even though I am one who’s a believer This thread will not make me a griever. Cause when the BS flows I’ll just hold my nose. And be entertaining for the receiver. I’ll kick the feces out of the way with a staff Then sit back and just have a good laugh. What you think is a delusion Might just be confusion And to think you could’ve made us a graph.