I'm the biggest advocate of people being laid back and having a sense of humor, but without a smiley face or something in the post, it just sounds like a low blow. Or maybe I haven't been in the forums for long enough to figure out which ones are jokes or not yet.

or maybe you're....well, never mind....

Nope, can t think of a use for lies, it can be a bandaid but can t hide the truth forever. So, Nope

your cheque is in the mail

thanks obi

Why do they call it "white lies"? I have always wondered that. Meaning those little lies of no consequence. Yet all untruths are untruths, right?

Were human we all have lied at one point in our lives,, big or small, a lie is a lie,,, on the other hand if faced with the possibilty of saving my child (ren) and knowing I had to lie to do so,,, I would,,,,

As a moral absolutist, I believe that lying is always wrong. But since lying is further down the hierarchy of sins (in severity), I would say that lying to protect property or life would be ethical. In other words, it would be more wrong to tell the truth (A Nazi asks "Are there any Jews in your house") than to tell a lie.

***LYING is not the best*** (At my job of twenty years, I was told I would have to walk the picket line. I told them no** the company has always been good to me.) I told the honest truth-- But, I did end up with two flat tires, after work.

everyone lies if not to others then to theirselves..it's human nature to lie and the practice falls under the catogory of self-preservation

Well whatever you were thinking, it was probably true! Haha.

I lied, yes.....

So is that a form of deontology then? But with minimalization of the absolute "wrong" based on context?

If it is 'OK', as your question suggests, it is not a lie, regardless of the accuracy or lack thereof of the words spoken.

'OK' here would be invoked in the strict context of the accepted definition of 'lie, lying':

'... to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive;'

It is never stricly to speak falsely, as in not true to fact. There must be intent to deceive!

As long as you mean 'OK' from the point of view of a sound moral and ethical intent, the words following such would never constitute a lie, ethical, religious, or otherwise.

Wouldn't that just mean that you were "morally" deceiving? But your intent would still be to deceive, albeit for a moral or ethical reason.

No, it's not. Deontology is a way of looking at the rightness or wrongness of a current state of affairs by looking at the ethical decisions. For instance: In WWII era Germany, if a Nazi asked me if there were any Jews in my house, I would lie and say "No". From a Deontological perspective, the fact that the Jew was still alive would be bad, because I lied to make that happen. I am looking at the moral choice in the present (lie or allow a Jew to be murdered) and making the choice that results in the least evil (the lie). A Deontologist looks at it in the rear view mirror and says "Even though this result looks good, it is the result of bad choices, therefore this result is bad". Deontologists take their eyes off of the results (saving a Jew's life) and focus on the relativly minor sin of lying to protect another's life.

I sense you might be confusing 'morally or ethically' motivated agendi, with sound moral and ethical intent?!?!?!

Sound moral and ethical intent would have one stand for and defend 'that which is right', as opposed to defending 'being personally right' !!!

"... are you hiding any jews???..." if you are, YES might the morally deceiving answer, therefore the lie, as opposed to, NO, given a moral and ethical stand for 'that which is right'!

Certainly, delivering Jews into the hands of Nazis, could never be defended as 'that which is right', or morally and ethically sound intent.

NO would not be a lie!!!

voile - you're reading the word "moral" into your original definition of "lying". As you first posted, the only requirements were to speak falsely and have the intent to deceive. Under that construction, even a moral intent to deceive would technically fit the definition and thus be a lie.

Methinks the problem is that I'm speaking of the act itself, while you're speaking of the results.

spider - thanks for the clarification. My philosophy class of three years ago has become quite hazy these days.

Religious people lie to their children about God all the time.

Apparently lying is perfectly fine.