Community > General Discussion

Topic: 911 conspiracy
soxfan94 Joined Mon 05/28/07 Posts: 3384	Mon 01/21/08 09:43 AM
It state in the Constitution that well not in these exsact words "if the government gets to powerful it is the citizen duty to over throw it a replace it" I'm fairly certain that's not in the Constitution. Maybe the Declaration of Independence or the Federalist Papers. Perhaps you were thinking of Abraham Lincoln's famous quote? "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. "

obillyo Joined Mon 12/31/07 Posts: 1265	Mon 01/21/08 09:44 AM
It state in the Constitution that well not in these exsact words "if the government gets to powerful it is the citizen duty to over throw it a replace it" I'm fairly certain that's not in the Constitution. Maybe the Declaration of Independence or the Federalist Papers. Perhaps you were thinking of Abraham Lincoln's famous quote? "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. " that changed 1913

khvnp1l0t Joined Sun 07/01/07 Posts: 14	Mon 01/21/08 09:47 AM
There are a lot of things which seem inexplicable, but has there ever been a building of that size put under that sort of structural stress before? Maybe that's just how big buildings fall. And I know that there are engineers who say it shouldn't have happened that way, but sometimes science mis-predicts real life results. And it was an honest question as to whether there have been any comparable building collapses...I don't know whether there have been or not. From what I know the towers depended on a central core of steel to stay standing. I remember hearing that, since the strength of steel decreases quite a bit with exposure to fire, the cores of the towers weakened and the top however-many floors just fell on top of those below. The steel core not being designed to take the upper part of the building falling rather than resting on it, the whole structures gave way. A friend I hae who is in cnstruction told me that the steel in large buildings is supposed to take the heat of a fire for a specific amount of time, but the fires ignited first by the jet fuel in the planes and then fueled by whatever combustible material in the ofices was both longer and hotter than what the engineers anticipated a normal office fire to be. That theory sort of makes sense to me, but my question is - if there was so much smoke (as is evident in any picture of the towers just before they fell), how could the fires be burning so strong? Doesnt a smoke-billowing fire indicate an oxygen-starved, and therefore weak fire?

soxfan94 Joined Mon 05/28/07 Posts: 3384	Mon 01/21/08 09:57 AM
that changed 1913 Not sure what you mean.

johnnie173 Joined Sat 02/17/07 Posts: 82	Mon 01/21/08 10:00 AM
Anyone who buys the 9/11 conspiracy bull isn't that bright or had too much time on their hands... Let's assume, conspiracy theorists, that it was a means to justify war. Why in the world would the govt. choose the twin towers? Why not do it on a much smaller scale, with far fewer casualties? Hell, the Pentagon would have been enough to outrage people. Now, let's again assume inside job... Think of the hundreds, if not thousands of people who would have had to be involved in the planning, ect. You mean to tell me that not one low level operative would have seen those people jumping out of those buildings and had a change of conscience? Not one big whistle blower with the facts to back it up? Get real! Now Kennedy was a conspiracy, and I hate to say it, but he had it coming. You don't mess with the mob. They put him in office, and then RFK turns around and goes after them? JFK was a great man, but I think he thought the Kennedy's were untouchable. The mob killed Kennedy, no doubt in my mind. 9/11? A tragic day that still sends chills down my spine... but not an inside jib.

commonman Joined Sat 01/19/08 Posts: 239	Mon 01/21/08 10:03 AM
Of course it was a "conspiracy" Conspiracy: # a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act # a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot) # a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn The real question is - whose conspiracy?

soxfan94 Joined Mon 05/28/07 Posts: 3384	Mon 01/21/08 10:06 AM
khvnp - I'm not sure about the logistics of how fires burn so I can't say. My point was just that theoretical science doesn't translate well to real life sometimes and that causes confusion. Like you said, people could argue all they want that the towers were built to withstand fire for X amount of hours, but this situation was different than those conceived to occur. johnnie - I agree. The thought that a secret like that wouldn't be leaked by hundreds of people is pretty crazy. Plus, like was alluded to earlier, the government is particularly bad at organizing itself haha. commonman - Touche.

commonman Joined Sat 01/19/08 Posts: 239	Mon 01/21/08 10:21 AM
Thank you! Been debating this with folks for a lot of years. Actually both sides of it... That guy that made the constitution quote cracked me up. What he was actually trying to quote was this by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Indepedence : "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

obillyo Joined Mon 12/31/07 Posts: 1265	Mon 01/21/08 10:22 AM


soxfan94 Joined Mon 05/28/07 Posts: 3384	Mon 01/21/08 10:27 AM
Nice work scrounging that up. I knew it wasn't from the Constitution, but wasn't certain that it was from any official government or just pamphlets of the time. (Although I guess that since there wasn't an officially formed government at the time, there couldn't have been any official government documents...haha) The whole situation certainly seems fishy to me, but to claim that it was entirely orchestrated by the government is simply an incredulous claim. It's more likely that they confiscated the video tapes because they wanted to hide the fact that they should have been prepared for an attack, but weren't...not because they planned it.

commonman Joined Sat 01/19/08 Posts: 239	Mon 01/21/08 10:38 AM
You was right on the Tom Jefferson thing though. Yeah, it is all pretty fishy. But the Gov didn't do it. Like you said - they grabbed the tapes for the reason you said they did. Nothing more than that. If anything, big companies had more to do with it than anything else.

Wiccancowboy Joined Mon 10/01/07 Posts: 800	Mon 01/21/08 10:46 AM
Anyone who buys the 9/11 conspiracy bull isn't that bright or had too much time on their hands... Let's assume, conspiracy theorists, that it was a means to justify war. Why in the world would the govt. choose the twin towers? Why not do it on a much smaller scale, with far fewer casualties? Hell, the Pentagon would have been enough to outrage people. Now, let's again assume inside job... Think of the hundreds, if not thousands of people who would have had to be involved in the planning, ect. You mean to tell me that not one low level operative would have seen those people jumping out of those buildings and had a change of conscience? Not one big whistle blower with the facts to back it up? Get real! Now Kennedy was a conspiracy, and I hate to say it, but he had it coming. You don't mess with the mob. They put him in office, and then RFK turns around and goes after them? JFK was a great man, but I think he thought the Kennedy's were untouchable. The mob killed Kennedy, no doubt in my mind. 9/11? A tragic day that still sends chills down my spine... but not an inside jib. the 3 ways to take us out 1 economy= World trade Center 2 Miltary= Pentagon 3 White house= the Plane that went down in Penn

Wiccancowboy Joined Mon 10/01/07 Posts: 800	Mon 01/21/08 10:49 AM
Thank you! Been debating this with folks for a lot of years. Actually both sides of it... That guy that made the constitution quote cracked me up. What he was actually trying to quote was this by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Indepedence : "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Well exsuse me for makin a Mistake...i may not know what paper its on but i know it there!! Anyhow im here in Iraq...I love my country, but fear my Government

soxfan94 Joined Mon 05/28/07 Posts: 3384	Mon 01/21/08 11:05 AM
Well exsuse me for makin a Mistake...i may not know what paper its on but i know it there!! Anyhow im here in Iraq...I love my country, but fear my Government No hard feelings, I was just trying to get to the bottom of it. And don't let any sort of differing opinions get in the way of the fact that I have the utmost respect for you and all our troops fighting overseas. Regardless of our political and opinionated differences at home, I think we can all agree that it is absolutely honorable what you're doing.

andreajayne Joined Mon 09/24/07 Posts: 8202	Mon 01/21/08 11:16 AM
this will probably be one of those questions that will never have an answer. i dont know what i believe, but i remember how i felt, and how it impacted my life. i didnt know anyone who suffered personally from the act against us, but i know people now who have sacrificed something little, or all to defend our country. daily, i think about our Soliders everywhere, not just overseas, and thank them for their duties and sacrifies they and their families have made!

tinabelle Joined Tue 09/26/06 Posts: 1044	Mon 01/21/08 11:20 AM
Anyone who buys the 9/11 conspiracy bull isn't that bright or had too much time on their hands... Let's assume, conspiracy theorists, that it was a means to justify war. Why in the world would the govt. choose the twin towers? Why not do it on a much smaller scale, with far fewer casualties? Hell, the Pentagon would have been enough to outrage people. Now, let's again assume inside job... Think of the hundreds, if not thousands of people who would have had to be involved in the planning, ect. You mean to tell me that not one low level operative would have seen those people jumping out of those buildings and had a change of conscience? Not one big whistle blower with the facts to back it up? Get real! Now Kennedy was a conspiracy, and I hate to say it, but he had it coming. You don't mess with the mob. They put him in office, and then RFK turns around and goes after them? JFK was a great man, but I think he thought the Kennedy's were untouchable. The mob killed Kennedy, no doubt in my mind. 9/11? A tragic day that still sends chills down my spine... but not an inside jib. right on !

zebra127 Joined Sun 01/20/08 Posts: 457	Mon 01/21/08 11:20 AM
yea elves did it

commonman Joined Sat 01/19/08 Posts: 239	Mon 01/21/08 11:25 AM
Sorry, but I won't be so easy on you. If you don't know what is on paper, or what is in the Constitution of the United States - then why are you fighting? And what are you fighting for? You fighting for freedom? For who?

andreajayne Joined Mon 09/24/07 Posts: 8202	Mon 01/21/08 11:28 AM
Sorry, but I won't be so easy on you. If you don't know what is on paper, or what is in the Constitution of the United States - then why are you fighting? And what are you fighting for? You fighting for freedom? For who? Not everyone knows exactly where their knowledge came from, atleast he knew it. and HE is fighting to give you the RIGHT to sit there and ridicule him for making a mistake...

commonman Joined Sat 01/19/08 Posts: 239	Mon 01/21/08 11:37 AM
No he is not. He is sitting on a computer somewhere making ridiculous posts. Then when he gets backed into a corner he pulls out the "I am fighting for your freedom card."