Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: If Christmas is not religious...
karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Sat 12/22/07 01:42 AM
infectious_witch Can you show me some of this proof that the Messiah was born in the spring? Thanks..Miles Hope this helps: Birth of Christ Recalculated http://www.versebyverse.org/doctrine/birthofchrist.html Bible Studies at The Moorings The Date of Christ's Birth http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/chronology/Chrmas.html

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Sat 12/22/07 04:27 PM
This is simply what I've heard, so your comments are appreciated. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas day. In fact, it has been proven that he was born sometime in the spring. Once again, I only heard this. I am not quite sure it's true. So, let's say it is true. If it is, why do we still celebrate Christmas? To visit family? Well, if we wanted to do that, we could find many other days in the year to do that, that is... if you truly loved your family. To give gifts? Why not buy gifts for them when you feel you really need to. It shouldn't be just one day. The spirit of Christmas is gone in me. As much as I want to enjoy Christmas again, I just can't. Seems that magic that I had during childhood left me. The only thing I see Christmas as is a failed attempt by the Christians to take over a Seasonal holiday that the Pagans have been celebrating for thousands of years. I also see it as a quick way for companies to make money, a quick way for a lot of traffic jams, and a quick way to make people lose a lot of money, become stressed, and drink a lot. If you love your family, don't just show them that you love them on one day of the year. Do it as much as possible. If you have kids, celebrate Christmas with them if you want. Gotta say that you're pretty right on with this. Just as "All saints day" was established as a holiday to deflect "all hallows day" - and Easter, pretty much the same.

Britty Joined Sat 09/08/07 Posts: 3480	Sat 12/22/07 04:56 PM
Adju - The cousins you are thinking of is Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. We have him to thank for the Christmas tree which he bought over from Germany (as well as Covent Garden and other things). Historical Christmas In England http://www.christmasrevelry.com/historical-christmas.php Christmas has a long and cherished history within the country of England, dating all the way back to the days of the legendary King Arthur, who was said to have made "merrie" in York in the year 521, celebrating the season with minstrels, gleemen, harpers, pipe-players, jugglers and dancers. There was a brief period where Christmas was not held in high regard by the country's leader and his many followers (Cromwell's reign), but other than that spot in history England has always been an abnormally special place for Christmas. The country's contributions to the season were permanently etched in history when the famous author Charles ****ens penned his perennial classic A Christmas Carol. According to Countess Maria Hubert von Staufer, Director of the U.K.-based Christmas Archives International, "It is a popular misconception that Christmas in England was eradicated by the Cromwellians and was reinvented by the Victorians." In reality the customs the people observed during the Victorian period of the 1800's were the same pre-Cromwellian traditions handed down from earlier days when the Christmas celebrations were forced to go underground. England's love of the holiday never died away. Nowadays the most popular Christmas tree in England is a giant spruce located near the statue of Lord Nelson in Trafalgar Square right in the heart of London. This tree is a gift from the people of Norway in response to England's generosity during World War II. When the German army occupied Norway during the terrible war, King Haakon of Norway was exiled in England. Each year during the occupation his exiled Norwegian military forces would smuggle a Norwegian tree past the German navy's patrols and bring it to their king in England so that he could celebrate Christmas with a tree from his own homeland. It may have been a small thing considering the circumstances of that historical period, but little things like that can mean a lot during the holidays.

RainbowTrout Joined Fri 04/06/07 Posts: 13869	Sat 12/22/07 07:41 PM
Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." Psalm 2 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? Merry Christmas.

RainbowTrout Joined Fri 04/06/07 Posts: 13869	Sat 12/22/07 07:53 PM
Ecclesiastes 1 2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Sat 12/22/07 10:51 PM
[q]Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." Psalm 2 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? Merry Christmas. [/q] [q]Ecclesiastes 1 2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. [/q] No one is disputing the idea of Christmas. The question is of the timing of the birth of Christ. As far as I have ever been told, learned etc (and part of that education in Catholic schools) was that the 'Christian' holidays were placed on pagan holidays so that it would be easier to convert them. Again I'll put this link here. This from a Bible study group. Bible Studies at The Moorings The Date of Christ's Birth http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/chronology/Chrmas.html

karmafury Joined Sun 11/12/06 Posts: 10156	Sat 12/22/07 10:51 PM
[q]Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." Psalm 2 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? Merry Christmas. [/q] [q]Ecclesiastes 1 2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity. [/q] No one is disputing the idea of Christmas. The question is of the timing of the birth of Christ. As far as I have ever been told, learned etc (and part of that education in Catholic schools) was that the 'Christian' holidays were placed on pagan holidays so that it would be easier to convert them. Again I'll put this link here. This from a Bible study group. Bible Studies at The Moorings The Date of Christ's Birth http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/chronology/Chrmas.html

spqr Joined Thu 12/13/07 Posts: 388	Fri 01/11/08 04:55 PM
The only thing I see Christmas as is a failed attempt by the Christians to take over a Seasonal holiday that the Pagans have been celebrating for thousands of years. I also see it as a quick way for companies to make money, a quick way for a lot of traffic jams, and a quick way to make people lose a lot of money, become stressed, and drink a lot. The combination of brainwashing, superstition, opportunism, and massive corporate profits will always play well in a culture in which the majority is either afraid of, or incapable of, doing their own thinking. The majority is KEPT from thinking trough attentive and delicate brainwashing from pre-school age. The flag, the "in god we trust" over the money and ultimately the fear that is being used as a tool are the basis of the brainwashing, that as a results prepares the terrain for much less phylosophical and much more economical oriented lies. That is infact the ultimate goal. religion is infact training for much more logic lies to be told. If you can believe a woman gave birth when virgin and that a guy walked over water, but died like everybody else, then you're ready to believe GW is a genius and we had to invade Iraq because they were threathening us with non existent WMDs.

infectious_witch Joined Fri 12/14/07 Posts: 462	Sat 01/12/08 11:50 AM
I can't believe this thread is still alive. more power to you all.

tinabelle Joined Tue 09/26/06 Posts: 1044	Sat 01/12/08 02:10 PM
truth is, a distinction needs to be made between Christians and the Catholics. if you know any history, then you are aware that the only 'religious' group that had the power to influence an entire empire of belief was the roman empire (Catholic). it was the Catholics that organized the crusades. it was the Catholics that attached christmas, and easter, and all saints day, to the pagan 'holy' days-not the Christians. no where in the Christian Bible are any of these days mentioned...yet two very different denominations have been smashed together so over the years that the one has-by default-been tainted and accused-because of the other.