It is interesting the things God is blamed for because of his choice to give us FREE WILL. somehow, our bad choices, are things we blame on Him, for having given us the choice to begin with. If everything was already designed so no poor choice could be made, what would be the value of having choice?


Just a thought. Maybe he wants us to choose Him, not be manipulated towards only the choice of Him. I see no reason he 'needs' us, other than in the capacity in which any parent 'needs' their kids, which is all the more reason I call Him Father. I didnt create my son or daughter because I 'needed' kids. I created them from love, just as I believe the Father created us.

And when we choose something other than Him, he shows us His infinite love, by banishing us from paradise, to an infinite plain of hellfire, brimstone, and Torture, for the rest of eternity?

no,just death, a second death. No eternal life.

From the impressive story of Job in the old testament (about which many PhD theses can be written), we know very well that suffering is not necessarily a consequence of a chosen wrong path by free will. Any of us can anytime be an experiment rat of no reason at all even if we are absolutely righteous. He just needs to satisfy his sadistic spirit.

Exactly as not all children are created from love, exactly as some children among syblings are more beloved and preferred (just from birth of no apparent reason at all), we as humans created by him are in the same position.

And his golden rule (what we again know well from Job's trial):

If you are righteous, sincere, honest, virtuos, merciful, helpful, loving, then all what is expecting you will be one trouble after the other and continuous suffering.

If you are wicked, all doors will be opened to you, and he will not even know how much more he can favor you and lick your ***.

The entirely human invention of this thing people call 'God' seems to make life incredibly complicated. Apart from anything else, there are many different religions and even among Christians there are many different denominations. Naturally they will all tell you that they are the 'right religion' and the others are all worshipping false Gods.

Since there is no God, all that argument is time wasting nonsense! Just get on with life, don't harm anyone else and all will be well.

Hmmm. Now I want to know why He planted the tree too. I bet it is because He just loves the tree. Such a good question.

Even though judgement may get in the way sometimes He still loves us no less.

The only thing I myself try to do left to do is wholeheartedly seek spiritual life.

The fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents judgmental thinking. Non-judgemental awareness is a Zen like state also described in eastern religions, where it is known as nirvana. The tree is alive still today.

What gets me is that it seems a tad sexist.
First off, Lillith was the first woman on earth, apparently. But she was a naughty girl, so she was cast out, and god made eve from a rib of the 'perfect' Adam.
But then she was a naughty girl, and did what the male god had told her not to do.

And all of this aside, are there not things in the dead sea scrolls and such, that say that the snake was not wicked?

There are also scriptures which name a tree of life, which was very important to have the fruit from in order to live, spiritually.

one can no doubt find anything they are seeking. Some seek God, some seek to be their own God, some seek faith, some seek doubts.

Choose wisely and live peacefully.

msHarmony, if only that were so.
Truly I do not find that of which I seek.
For starters, I came here for a date

lol ... of course, I meant in terms of religion and belief

Maybe the fruit was some inedible berry with painful effects, put there as a safeguard if we started venturing out near danger, to keep humankind out of trouble by giving them knowledge of evil. We were put in the garden to begin with so that we would still be left with a concept of what safe and sound means.

Maybe it had magikal properties.
Blue lotus, which is actually a type of water lily, has many legends behind it, and was used by Egyptian Priests. Sikh temples are often crowned with a large bluish purplish dome with a tip. Which resembles many magic mushrooms, which coincidentally, if broken, the inside oxidises and within 30 seconds, turns that colour. Many Shamans in various countries use various plants, that have psychoactive properties, from Salvia divanorum ( the divine sage) to ayahuasca. Saddhus are renowned for their use of ganja. Just what is in holy water? I often thought it likely contains mandrake.
The list goes on, and on. But it seems Western Culture/religion, wants to deny/ignore all/any of this. Probably because they do not wish us to become enlightened, and to only live within their frame of reality/beliefs

I grew up learning that Eve sinned the original sin.
The original sin, I was told, was her partaking of the tree of the fruit of knowledge.
I think the original sin was the betrayal of God's will.
God said don't do it and she did it anyway, then gave some to Adam.

But, there's a defect in the reasoning that makes no sense.
God gave Man dominion over the Earth.
Why not just leave it at that?
Why place a forbidden fruit within their grasp?
Was it a test?
Why would He need to test His creation, His perfect creation, made in His own image.
Is God fallible?
He must think so if He felt He needed to test his own perfect creation.

Lets consider creation.
God said let there be light, created all the Heavens and the Earth.
This means, everything that is, is of God's creation.
That includes Lucifer, his once trusted Angel.
Since Lucifer supposedly tempted Eve, indicates that Lucifer was already cast out of God's grace before Man existed.
Since God also created Lucifer, does He have a learning disability?
Why create Man in His own image to have free will when He has prior knowledge that some of His creations in the past were defective?
Did He have a brain fart?

What gets me is that all these eons later men are told not to expand their knowledge because it goes against God's will.
How does anyone know what God's will is if He doesn't?

Who can say we are not supposed to reach a level of enlightenment that we have not yet reached. Who is to say we haven't reached it already?

The reasoning of the religions I have been taught is what causes me to have no faith in religion.
If the beginning principles make no sense to a lowly man, there is a defect in my reasoning or there is a defect in the reasoning of the religions I have been taught.

Y'all might think I'm atheist but I'm not.
I just believe in a God that has very little to do with religion.

We do hear you.

Wrong.
Adam fell long before he ended up in Eden.
You might know this if you read the book.



Eden was just a stop off point for Adam.

Did you think God was going to rearrange all of creation over this?

Consider this. Perhaps you should read the book if you are going to make comments on it.

Consider this. Perhaps you should read the book if you are going to make comments on it.

Which bit or 1 should we read?
Do you happen to have a copy of the dead sea scrolls? I might give them a go