And if all that fails say "that dress is very becoming on you, then again if I was on you I'd be coming too";^]

They are all liars, cheats, and thieves in one way or another. But that's my opinion and noone has to agree with me. Its just an opinion.

Well I think that's a bit black & white. I agree the game players are a bit bad, but not all of those mentioned are into game playing;^]

I just don't understand the point here. I got too much game and I'm not trying. Gotta beat em off with a stick. I need a chief repellant artist to give me tips on repelling women. I tried not showering. Didn't work. Tried letting myself go to heck. Didn't work. Tried being mean and crazy. It attracted them more.

Tried wearing a wedding ring. Nope attracted them more. Tried to lie and cheat on them. Nope didn't work. I just hide from them now.

Eh, to each their own. I prefer to be myself & in a respectful, gentleman manor without these "codes" and games, if I can't pick up a girl who won't respect me how I am then I don't need her anyway. But if a guy can pick up women with these codes good for them, probably not the type of women I want anyway;^]

wait, what the hell?

Which part did you not understand? While being controversial and outspoken as you tend to be...Did you expect to not have some detractors in the crowd who are women?

Yes.. of course, I'm being a little facetious here... But, even I could see that coming. No crystal ball or psychology degree necessary.

the part about me being accused of harassing women via messaging when i mainly converse with those who message ME first

and especially when i have never harrassed anyone on this site

ive had thread debates like i have with you, jistme, but ive never taken any negativity to the messaging realm

I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt and say you probably had no intention of being harassing. You were actually accused of being inappropriate though. Two completely different things.

Regardless... Any line, in conjunction with the methodology you publicize so openly in the threads, some woman might find to be offensive.

I have a Niece, about 26 years old.. who stops traffic, is highly intelligent and is very long on common sense. She might give you the time of day.. right up to the point you opened your mouth with an attempt to pick her up. Then...for you? Game over.

Not by means of any private messaging. Everything potentially inappropriate I have been accused of is out the open in these threads for everyone to see.

Ture, if you wanted to be a Brain Surgeon you'd go to medical school and residency where you'd be trained as a brain surgeon. Now who do you think is going to be teaching the classes and doing the training? Are you going to just slice people's heads open until you figure it out yourself?

Sorry Geek, but most classes of that nature would be taught by Professors with 'at' 20+ years under their belts..... but you can't watch the movie Hitch 3 times, read a few books, and consider yourself a master at the age of 18 or 19.....that is where I claim "Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuull****tttttttttttt"....

If Brains were here she would tear the arse out of every post that reeked of this filth... sadly because the forum has changed and taken over by the kids...she is elsewhere.

Be yourself Geek2the10th....... don't fall to the dark side... for anyone wanting a real relationship with a real woman, we don't fall for this shyt, we fall for the realness in front of us, not the games, not the one-liners, but who a guy is deep inside his heart....and in the dark you see his heart shine like a stained glass artpiece and that is what fills us with fuucking awe and disbelief that we are so lucky and blessed to have found this treasure.... but these mere tactics are just that... tactics played on a gameboard....and you get to an age and maturity where the games are done......left behind for children to play....

Oh but Jistme and I were talking about the show on VH1 so my analogy is still valid.

I don't consider all this stuff filth. If you haven't read it then don't judge it by what it sounds like. Sure I think a lot of it is a bit distasteful, some of it is morally questionable but a lot of it makes a point to tell people to be confident and be funny. The stuff about "inner game", as I've mentioned before is about being confident in yourself. What's the 2 things nearly every woman says are attractive...confidence, sense of humor.

Some people are naturally confident, some people due to social circumstances or because of events in their life aren't. I never had an abundance of self esteem, being smaller than the other kids, being the only asian in an all white school, not being athletically gifted, being intellectually gifted not exactly the recipe for mr. popular. Add to that the feeling that I never did well enough for my parents (my parents wanted me to retake the SATs after I scored a 1500, cause my math score could have been better). A 80 was a horrible failure, even a 99 would lead them to ask why I didn't get 100.

There's also the social aspect of being an asian male in the US . Asian men are emasculated, seen as not sexually desireable men (just watch the movies, how much ass must Jet Li kick to land the chick in a movie compared to Steven Segal or Van Damme?)

Anyways, this isn't about my past hangups. There are a lot of people out there who just do not have confidence and the "inner game" address this specifically. It's not about learning one liners that's the assumption people make when they think of the term "pick up".

If women fell for the realness as you describe why are there daily posts from women saying "why can't I find a nice guy?" Why are there daily posts from nice guys saying "why can't I find a woman who appreciates me?" I'm not making these questions up, they are all over the board. And if a nice guy can't gain a confident mindset and approach women how is she ever going to see him for who he is?

I read some of this stuff, I take from it what I want to take from it. The points that some PUAs make about being confident and how to exude that through body language, and how to shift your mindset to one that's more confident are valid IMO. People don't have to follow everything they say, a lot of these guys have different opinions anyways, but it's not all horrible and manipulative.

OMG

How old are you ppl???

12?

13?

Geek..

We all go through stuff that takes the wind out of us. Born into situations that are less then ideal. Act out in a variety of ways until such time that many of us one day... look at ourselves in the mirror and make the decision to behave differently. No one has to teach us. We know the difference between right and wrong.

Granted, there are those who are born into privilege and status.. the right color for the day... and wonderful perfect parents, but not many. I wasn't one of them.

I did not need someone or a bunch of someones to hand hold me through growing up. Shape me to some predetermined model of a man. Measure what sort of man I am by my social grace and how I perform around the opposite sex.

Just one day as a boy.. I looked at myself in the mirror and said to myself.. You need to be a man. The rest just happened.

The process you have gone through reminds me of heroin addicts that stop using heroin by becoming an alcoholic. Or the alcoholic that stops drinking by becoming addicted to meetings, and takes advantage of the people in the meetings that suffer gravely from low self esteem for the benefit of their own self esteem.

All they are doing is trading one problem for another. Never owning their situation...and using those around them in a self righteous stance.. saying stuff like this as an excuse to their historic and current behavior.



I'm guessing you have not seen your day in the mirror yet. So the PUA thing makes a good crutch til that day comes.... If it ever does.

The irony here is this.. That heroin addict that turns alcoholic dies alcoholic.. the alcoholic who is parasitic in the meetings dies lonely and bitter..usually drinking. In this analogy.. your future is not a pretty one if you don't have your day in the mirror.

I agree with you, turtlepoet78. Being yourself has worked just fine for me.

I think jistme brings up a very good point. A lot of people seek out "gurus" in life whether they be spiritual, financial, etc. I think it is fine to look at what they are offering but ultimately the Truth for you is within yourself. Some of these people begin "worshiping" these "life" gurus thinking their way is THE way. A good example is that Tony Robbins guy. It's kind of sad, really. A true guru, at least in a spiritual sense, knows he is merely pointing a finger towards the Way. You are the one who has to walk the path.

That is not to say I haven't read motivational books here and there but as jistme has mentioned, everyone comes to a point when they "see the light". It took me hitting rock bottom emotionally before I had my day but once it happened, my whole world changed.

What you wrote is interesting because it sounds almost exactly like what I read in a book that chief reccomended.

Let me clarify something cause you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm busily learning one liners, openers, closers, tactics for seduction etc. I don't really care to learn the hundreds of myriad terms for everything from A1 to O12 or whatever else. I don't care to walk outside my door and be able to start hitting on girls left and right. I don't need a fistful of numbers to validate me.

Both the book I mention and my time here at JSH has served me well in realizing that my shyness or negative self images are only perceptions I have in my mind, that past feelings of inadequecy are little more than handcuffs I mentally put on and bound myself with. To let go of those and feel good about just being myself.

I'm only on this thread in an attempt to point out that not all of this stuff is manipulation, seduction, and living a lifestyle with the sole attempt to bang anything that moves. Some of this stuff can be found in any number of self help books that have nothing at all to do with picking up women.

The words you quoted were not an attempt to excuse my behavoir, I don't see why I would have reason to excuse my behavoir, perhaps I'm a bit of a smartass but it's in jest and I don't feel like I've made comments in an attacking manner. Those words were expressing periods in my life where I wasn't comfortable in my own skin, a bit of self analysis looking at my past and what might have led me to be so shy. Negative self image has to come from somewhere, it's not a congenital trait nor is it a healthy one to have.

You seem to be of the opinion that people should never change unless they can do it under their own power. That people who have issues within themselves that they want to change shouldn't seek a therapist or read a self help book to clarify their perspective and perhaps see things from a different one.

I'm not particularly worried about my future. I work hard, I'm honest, contrary to what you might believe I don't objectify women nor do I attempt to play any games. I have no wish to be Don Juan or Mystery nor lead their lifestyle, just a wish to find a great woman who wants to be with me and wants to be my partner in creating a fun, generous, giving life. And I don't understand why you would have an issue with me wanting to be more self confident, self reliant, and more able to approach a woman in public just to say hello, how are you, my name's Will and I'd like to grab a cup of coffee with you to get to know you better.

Hey Geek, I don't know if your post was geared toward jistme, myself or both but I wanted to respond to some of what you have written.



I've had a real problem with self esteem for years as well. It hasn't been until the past year or so that I have begun to break away from these chains. That's almost 35 years of being imprisoned in my own little hell and viewing the world from a perspective of pure hate and sadness. My change did not come from solely doing it myself, though.

Again, I don't know if this quote is directed towards me or not but I want to respond.



I would never say that people should not change unless they do it themselves. I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone searching for more meaning or trying to improve themselves through books, seminars, churches, retreats, etc.

The problem I do have, however, is that some people take it to the extreme. They feel they ONLY can change if they have the "guru" by their side. Without the "gurus" words or direction, they consider themselves hopeless. I do have a problem with that.

What rubs me the wrong way about the stuff mentioned here are the terms "pick up artist", "inner game" and "outer game". It comes across as being some kind of seminar on becoming a true "player", not a sincere way to improve yourself.

Naw that was to jistme, you must've posted before I finished. I think we're 2 peas in a pod.

Sometimes reading someone else's words or seeing a different perspective just elucidates and solidifies your thoughts and gets the ball rolling. Of course at the end of the day no amount of reading or listening to someone else can make you change yourself.

Yeah the terms are offputting and some of the stuff is really along morally shady lines. The way I look at it is if it's not the way I'd want a guy treating my mom or sister it's not something I'd want to do.