Familiar with the phrase "Fake it till you make it"?

REALLY, that's what the whole game is all about. Mystery Method, Cocky/Funny, Neil Strauss' Annihilation, etc is primarily about fake it till you make it.

Why do you think so many people disagree on the best "Method" even within the PUA community? It's because, unlike many things in life, it's the destination, not the journey that matters.

But, you must go through the journey.

Your average guy who has problems with women didn't get "something" when they were younger. They got gunshy from being turned down, and rather than going out and facing their problem they retreated.

Or maybe, they just got fed bad information - kept trying in the weenie-mama's boy, do-whatever-she-wants way and eventually gave up.

Maybe they just didn't grow up with a strong male role-model around...with America's divorce rate up over 50%, this happens more often than not.

Whatever it is, the person didn't get what they needed to learn to deal with women. Now, they want to make up for lost time, lost opportunities, but are doing so with the hangups they've gained over the years.

Men, in general, are a process driven group of humans. We like to have a plan, a method, of doing things. We feel more comfortable if we have a laid-out plan of attacks, so to speak.

What all of these PUA methods do is help us get over the anxiety. They provide a set strategy for dealing with women, and that's important to us, especially those of us that don't have the confidence and experience we'd necessarily like.

Memorizing openings, routines, etc, give us that. "Ok, if she says this, I'll say this, then if she does this, I'll do this, but if she does that, I'll do this other thing". For a group of men with low experience, low confidence, low self-esteem, this is a godsend.

But of course, it's not everything. It IS, however, a crutch. And that's not a bad thing.

If you break your leg and need a crutch to get around until you can handle it on your own, use it. It's far better than trying to hobble around and falling, potentially making your break worse and lengthening the amount of time you need to heal up. So use that crutch while you need to use it.

However, there will come a time when your crutch slows you down. You can't get around at your best potential speed, with your best potential agility, with that crutch. That's when you drop it and stand on your own two feet.

PUA books, boards, websites, videos, audio tracks, etc are all crutches. If you need them, use them until you can do it on your own. Until you can talk to an attractive girl without having to fall back on patterns and techniques.

If someone hassles you, heckles you or belittles and berates you, why bother validating them with fighting back, arguing with them? You're not going to change their mind, and it's really not worth trying. You don't need their permission, nor their approval, to live your life as you want to (with the disclaimer that intentionally hurting innocent people is bad). Don't waste your time, attention or energy on someone when it's not going to make a difference either way.

Well, I went and read Mystery's article on neg theory. I can't say that I won't give it a try, but the ideas presented made me feel rather anxious. It was hard enough for me to get to the point where I could tell somebody something that was completely true and kind. Even just sitting in the safety of my apartment, thinking about "negs" makes me afraid that I'd say something to hurt somebody's feelings.

In any case, I'd appreciate some additional insight into some of the ideas that were mentioned. The first concept is that of ranking. Mystery wrote that a 10 might need 3 negs in rapid succession while an 8 might just need 2 and not as quickly. What, exactly, constitutes a 10 or an 8? Obviously, personal taste can't be the only factor.

Second, if I don't miss my guess, keen observation seems important here. I don't think I've ever actively noticed a girl's nails before, for example. Observing and then improvising a neg seems like it would be really hard. In the example he gave, 2/3 of the negs were based on her appearance. Would a backhanded compliment of any sort work?

Maybe, for example, ask her, "Tell me what you thought about Catch 22." If she's read it and has something to say about it, disagree and play the devil's advocate. If she doesn't have anything to say about it, say, "Huh. You struck me as the kind of lady who'd enjoy smart literature."

Mystery Method is just the most popular method out there. You may want to check out some other things, such as "direct game." Direct Game involves expressing more interest up front, but requires a lot stronger frame of confidence...more balls...which is why newbies immediately stick their noses in those indirect game books first. http://www.bristollair.com/outer-game/techniques/style/guide-to-direct-game.html

I personally don't use the ranking system. I hate it and I don't even understand it at times. My ranking system has two categories: "I like" and "I don't like." However, I will offer that the 1-10 ranking system is not necessarily based on physical attractiveness. It may seem like it, but it's actually based on the woman's social standing in comparison to everyone else.
If a woman is a "HB10" that means she KNOWS that she is THE SH!T and is always rejecting men who aren't good enough for her like it's breathing. This woman, in accordance to Mystery Method, will need to be negged more so that you can break down her fake social mask. These types of people usually put on a MUCH stronger act to preserve their "high" social status, and negs allow her to put that ridiculous guard down for once so that the two of you can effectively have a genuine connection.

Yes.

That second part is a great neg and shows that you've got this conceptualized the right way, as long as your energy is still positive (no bitter feelings allowed). The first part, however, is not a neg. It's just arguing, and that's bad.
The whole point is to be playful here. At least that's my interpretation of this pickup discipline.
If she actually has something cool to say about Catch 22, pay attention...especially to the EMOTION she is trying to convey. "Zen," a pickup artist author who combined concepts from the PUA community and Zen Buddhism, has a mantra of "find the emotion, feeling, or trait. Notice, admire, relate." That means don't neg. She's being good and following the path you set out in front of her by making a real effort in creating a genuine connection so reward her accordingly

I think that I'll probably stick with "indirect game" for the time being. The specific method that we just discussed seems like it has a lot of strengths for the kind of interactions I want to have. One, it helps me to determine whether or not a particular woman is capable of engaging in an intellectual conversation. Two, by using the "neg" technique, I make her want to live up to my expectation of intellectual conversation rather than letting her cut me down for bringing up a "geeky" topic.

It's kind of funny. When a nice guy complains that women don't want to talk to him, friends often console him with the words, "It's her loss." The funny thing is that it really is her loss and this technique seems geared toward letting the woman know that (and that you know it too.)

Dude. You're finally getting it.

NICE!

Your success is practically inevitable at this point.

By the way,
I'm getting tired of Mystery Method... I'm planning on completely switching over to Gunwitch Method, which has a lot of opposite elements to MM.

I find GWM (Gunwitch Method), which is a form of "Direct Game," to be a more honest expression of this art than "Indirect Game."

From what I've studied so far from GWM, here's what I can explain about it:

When you approach a woman, get yourself into what Gunwitch calls a "sexual state" from your sheer interest in her. Getting into a sexual state basically means letting yourself know that you are very interested in her and WANT HER without fooling yourself with any self-deception. When you are in a sexual state, you will naturally start speaking and acting in a more comfortable and confident manner, provided that you've got Inner Game down. Your sexual state will convey that you are interested in her right from the getgo so there isn't any of that indirect beating around the bush.

While you are speaking to her, get into a state of assuming rapport so you can freely be yourself around her.

What's the script? Only simple sh!t like "Hi how are you?" and "What do you like to watch on TV?" The words really don't matter as long as it's good conversation.

GWM really focuses around the fact that women love sex just as much or even more than men do, and as a man you have the responsibility of giving women the right kind of opportunities to have their desires fulfilled.

Next is SECT.

S stands for Speaking like a lover. E is for Eye contact like a lover. C is for Closeness (physical proximity) of a lover. T is for Touch like a lover. If you are in a sexual state, you should and will speak, look, be close to, and touch her in ways that are congruent to a sexual being, and she'll catch onto that vibe and reciprocate.

GWM will not work for any guy who is insecure (neither will any method out there). He should work out his Inner Game issues first. Women are not attracted to insecure guys because they generally convey a sense of neediness and desperation that creeps women out. The stronger your Inner Game is, the stronger your game will be overall.

Still seems like a lot of work to get the girl that you find out two months later has the personality of a squid, intelligence of a cardboard box, and her brothers big ass feet. As you get older you find you get a deeper perception into your conquests and realize the things that are real, tangible, and most important. Your values change and you waste less time, money, and stress because you can predict the outcome and value its worth. Call it time management weighed against profitable outcomes. But I respect your view.

I guess what I'm saying simply put- is predict the future. Why waste valueable time and effort trying to win over the high school homecoming queen with the heavy social mask, uncompassionate attitude, and voracious ego- because she turned you down for a date in front of everyone in home ec class. When you see her at your 20 year class reunion she's going to be grossly overweight, 3 kids, two divorces, and still driving the same red grand am she had in high school. And you're going to wish you never cracked her social mask and got her interest because she's going to be on you like flies on crap at that class reunion and you're going to be uncomfortable with it.

Just cut to the chase and hook up with that social butterfly. The nerdy girl with the glasses and her nose in the books. And treat her like the queen. Why? Because when she blooms at 30 she's going to come out of that shell like a screaming bombshell supermodel. She's going to be the hottest thing you ever seen. She's going to be a sexual dynamo rockstar nymphomaniac in the bedroom. And her quiet intelligence will make her extremely wealthy and she will hopefully take you along that ride down easy street.

Ahhhhh.......love.

Maybe it' just me, but the kiss would have to wait. I'm not into rushing things.

Like first-maybe really like next, love takes times.

Wow, I haven't been on here in awhile. I like longhairbiker's idea. Maybe we could turn that into the new method, lol. Really, you don't even have to wait until she "blossoms". The "nerd" look with glasses can actually be pretty attractive.

Guess who started posting on this pickup forum that I frequent? That's right, this Chris Matthew guy lol
He seems like he knows what he's talking about, but I haven't seen anything extraordinary from him yet.
Here's something he said that struck me as somewhat profound, though:

He was talking about a specific well-known pickup company, but that bit is making me rethink of the whole GFTOW solution to oneitis. Does it promote a fake display or can it lead to authentic consistency? Hmm...

Oneitis (obsessing over one girl) usually stems from having a scarcity mentality, not realizing that there are "plenty of fish in the sea." I've always promoted the GFTOW approach as a solution because it promotes an abundance mentality and helps the PUA realize that all women are special, and that one girl isn't the only woman of beauty with endearing, great qualities. I suppose the GFTOW method won't work, though, if the PUA was just doing it for the sex, not being mindful of the women's true inner beauty.

I guess the better approach to curing oneitis would be to 1. Learn to see and appreciate the beauty within everyone you encounter -> and then 2. GFTOW

Oh my god are you still spinning this shyt..........???????

lol silly dragon
May you find what you are looking for on whatever path you choose to take

You made some good points in here. It is important to be confident and and your sh!t together. Also important to have a positive attitude. (Which is why cocky/funny works so well) These don't quite work the same for women as they do for men though. You are dealing with two different styles of personalities. The men, are the aggressors, actively persuing their mate. The women put themselves out there and select their mate. (You can kinda think of guys as sperm and women as the egg.) As a result men have a tendency to be more direct and women have a tendency to be more subtle. Guys have to learn to read body language, and pick up on tiny little hints in order to learn whether or not she is interested. (Yes this is a generalization but it's true about 90% of the time, no b.s.) Nifty thing about women, is they make up their mind quick. You blow it, even for a minute or two (in the beginning) you are pretty much done for. They make up their mind within the first 30 seconds of meeting you whether you have potential for the next step. Then it only takes a minute or two before she makes another judgement call. Kinda interesting. Guys are a little more simple minded when it comes to attraction. It's easier for women to redeem themselves, and looks play a big part in attraction for most guys. Confidence looks attractive to anyone.

Here are my pointers. Guys, stop trying to impress women. Seeking their approval is detrimental to attraction. As chief mentioned earlier you are not being yourself. Social status is key if you want to attract those that are really hard to get. This rule applies for both men and women. The rest has already been mentioned. Oh yeah, humor is a good thing too.

it's been well over 5 months take a break.