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Topic: Neighborhood redevelopment with tree farm
Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 06:54 AM
If one removed roads from a deteriorating neighborhood in the flood zone and replaced them with elevated boardwalk paths; build a parking garage and rooftop culture establishment for local organizations at the central access road, in the neighborhood install pilings at the corners of the houses, elevate them, remove compacted foundations, and plant ground with nut trees, leaf packaging-material, and other forest products, and have occasional crop fields around the outskirts for open space view from houses in the forest edge and for farm work exercise,

what opinions would there be about it?

soufiehere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 06:59 AM
With no more road to their home..do they walk
from the elevated boardwalk pathways, to however
far away their house is?

TxsGal3333's photo
Sun 08/12/18 07:06 AM
Hummm reminds me of the saying "You build it they will come" better get busy,,,,

But with with the area in a flood zone unless there is a way to rebuild to keep the area from flooding no matter what you put there it will deteriorate over the years and re-flood....whoa

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 07:26 AM

Hummm reminds me of the saying "You build it they will come" better get busy,,,,

But with with the area in a flood zone unless there is a way to rebuild to keep the area from flooding no matter what you put there it will deteriorate over the years and re-flood....whoa


Thanks for the thoughts @Tx !

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 07:45 AM

With no more road to their home..do they walk
from the elevated boardwalk pathways, to however
far away their house is?


It would be important that transportation be worked out more, to preclude less than favorable set-up. Thanks for the ideas.

no photo
Sun 08/12/18 07:47 AM

If one removed roads from a deteriorating neighborhood in the flood zone and replaced them with elevated boardwalk paths; build a parking garage and rooftop culture establishment for local organizations at the central access road, in the neighborhood install pilings at the corners of the houses, elevate them, remove compacted foundations, and plant ground with nut trees, leaf packaging-material, and other forest products, and have occasional crop fields around the outskirts for open space view from houses in the forest edge and for farm work exercise,

what opinions would there be about it?


Well as one who lives in a flood zone and has lived thru a hurricane here I will tell you that all that you mention... will be gone.. destroyed or out to sea.

Some of my neighbors came back to a concrete slab.. their house was somewhere out in the Atlantic.

Nothing stops water.. nothing.. and it takes everything with it.

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 07:53 AM
The main objective would be to optimize economic, health, and ecologic values across the land. This idea comes at it by managing the shared environment. The most crucial work would be how to survey the prospective population.

no photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:05 AM
I understand your points and maybe in some places this would work.. but taking out roads and replacing them with boardwalks?

Just that alone. How would emergency equipment get down the board walks to put out fires or save peoples lives

I'm in construction and it just would not work, just from a utilities standpoint alone.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:09 AM
Here on the South coast Katrina made people rethink their building needs.
Nearly every home built near the beach is now built on stilts or with flood breaks.
The city works tirelessly to assure all drainage is maintained too.
Many palm trees are planted as well.
We have a community garden & greenhouses too.

One thing I would like to see more of is community-lined fruit trees and berry bushes. There are a lot of pecan trees around here tho.

Much of our electrical grid is buried along with telecommunication lines.
With NASA so close there are large NASA buffer zones that could be planted with a variety of food bearing plants.

Many of the evacuation routes are being widened to 4-lane highways, there is a rise in the number of hotels and motels to the north around 50 miles from here. Nearly every roadway surface is elevated. Bridges are freshly built and constantly maintained.

Most of our sewage lines are on a closed system with isolation valves to prevent back feeding. Our potable water supply has isolated circuits that prevents large contamination and pressure loss during hurricanes.

There are a multitude of fire & rescue stations with more being built. My area of the city has 3 with the most recent one just built, another is in construction about 4 miles from here.

All stores have a constant supply of bottled water. Most of our canned goods now have easy open tops. Our lumber yards have high volumes of plywood in stock during hurricane season (June 1 to November 30).

Many of the police, fire & rescue vehicles have fording kits installed and high clearance suspension systems.

I'm fairly impressed with my community's disaster preparedness and sustainability efforts.
I think it could improve on its ready, naturally grown food sources but all in all, pretty good.

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:17 AM
Edited by Narlycarnk on Sun 08/12/18 08:18 AM


If one removed roads from a deteriorating neighborhood in the flood zone and replaced them with elevated boardwalk paths; build a parking garage and rooftop culture establishment for local organizations at the central access road, in the neighborhood install pilings at the corners of the houses, elevate them, remove compacted foundations, and plant ground with nut trees, leaf packaging-material, and other forest products, and have occasional crop fields around the outskirts for open space view from houses in the forest edge and for farm work exercise,

what opinions would there be about it?


Well as one who lives in a flood zone and has lived thru a hurricane here I will tell you that all that you mention... will be gone.. destroyed or out to sea.

Some of my neighbors came back to a concrete slab.. their house was somewhere out in the Atlantic.

Nothing stops water.. nothing.. and it takes everything with it.


Most of the area is floodplain outside of channel and wave velocity hazard areas. There is a barrier island feature offshore which will not migrate to the inland site for hundreds of years. The trend for the area is that it is gradually becoming swampland.

no photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:24 AM



If one removed roads from a deteriorating neighborhood in the flood zone and replaced them with elevated boardwalk paths; build a parking garage and rooftop culture establishment for local organizations at the central access road, in the neighborhood install pilings at the corners of the houses, elevate them, remove compacted foundations, and plant ground with nut trees, leaf packaging-material, and other forest products, and have occasional crop fields around the outskirts for open space view from houses in the forest edge and for farm work exercise,

what opinions would there be about it?


Well as one who lives in a flood zone and has lived thru a hurricane here I will tell you that all that you mention... will be gone.. destroyed or out to sea.

Some of my neighbors came back to a concrete slab.. their house was somewhere out in the Atlantic.

Nothing stops water.. nothing.. and it takes everything with it.


Most of the area is floodplain outside of channel and wave velocity hazard areas. There is a barrier island feature offshore which will not migrate to the inland site for hundreds of years. The trend for the area is that it is gradually becoming swampland.


Where are you talking about?

TxsGal3333's photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:31 AM


Most of the area is floodplain outside of channel and wave velocity hazard areas. There is a barrier island feature offshore which will not migrate to the inland site for hundreds of years. The trend for the area is that it is gradually becoming swampland.


Humm that is kind of a old joke here like if you believe that I have some swamp land I could sell ya... really cheap or maybe the side of a cliff..

Really how does one expect to sell property if it is gradually becoming swampland?

And well like what was stated above emergency vehicles would have no access, just not feasible...

Well and you get my age and all that walking it's not what it's cut out to be... most want to have transportation....

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 08:51 AM
Edited by Tom4Uhere on Sun 08/12/18 08:53 AM
Most of the area is floodplain outside of channel and wave velocity hazard areas. There is a barrier island feature offshore which will not migrate to the inland site for hundreds of years. The trend for the area is that it is gradually becoming swampland.

I'm thinking you are talking about a specific area?

The Sun is in its initial main sequence stage. Its still getting hotter.
The Earth is currently coming out of its last ice age glaciation period.
The ice is rapidly melting.
As the ice continues to melt, there will be changes in global weather patterns.
With all that ice turning to water, it changes the salinity content of the oceans.
The oceans also rise.
If you look at the super-computer simulated sea level rise predictions, much of the world's coastal areas will be flooded when the last of the ice melts.


USA


South America


Antarctica


UK


Australia

Swampland is the least of the problems we face.

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 09:11 AM

Here on the South coast Katrina made people rethink their building needs.
Nearly every home built near the beach is now built on stilts or with flood breaks.
The city works tirelessly to assure all drainage is maintained too.
Many palm trees are planted as well.
We have a community garden & greenhouses too.

One thing I would like to see more of is community-lined fruit trees and berry bushes. There are a lot of pecan trees around here tho.

Much of our electrical grid is buried along with telecommunication lines.
With NASA so close there are large NASA buffer zones that could be planted with a variety of food bearing plants.

Many of the evacuation routes are being widened to 4-lane highways, there is a rise in the number of hotels and motels to the north around 50 miles from here. Nearly every roadway surface is elevated. Bridges are freshly built and constantly maintained.

Most of our sewage lines are on a closed system with isolation valves to prevent back feeding. Our potable water supply has isolated circuits that prevents large contamination and pressure loss during hurricanes.

There are a multitude of fire & rescue stations with more being built. My area of the city has 3 with the most recent one just built, another is in construction about 4 miles from here.

All stores have a constant supply of bottled water. Most of our canned goods now have easy open tops. Our lumber yards have high volumes of plywood in stock during hurricane season (June 1 to November 30).

Many of the police, fire & rescue vehicles have fording kits installed and high clearance suspension systems.

I'm fairly impressed with my community's disaster preparedness and sustainability efforts.
I think it could improve on its ready, naturally grown food sources but all in all, pretty good.


That is awesome to hear about down in Mississippi. Underground power lines or else protection from overhead trees I think is an important factor to be worked out. Thanks Tom!

no photo
Sun 08/12/18 09:12 AM

The main objective would be to optimize economic, health, and ecologic values across the land. This idea comes at it by managing the shared environment. The most crucial work would be how to survey the prospective population.



Elevated structures rely on the foundation, if that's not stable, it's useless, better to rebuild on higher ground, yes to the deep rooted nut trees, soil erosion and landslides are another factor to consider

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 10:01 AM
Also, I have noticed that nearly every home in my neighborhood has some type of boat on the property.
There is also a large supply of air mattresses available in the large department stores in the area.
My local grocery stocks a shidload of Styrofoam coolers too.
More than any other store, including walmart.
I have also noticed the equipment rental shacks have a large selection of high volume water pumps outside.
At City Hall (where I go in to pay my water bill) there is a huge elevation map of the city on display. It has aid stations and evacuation routes notated. I wish it was available online.

I believe every community that is in the path of potential flooding should have an information booklet delivered each time a phone book is delivered.
I was living in Missouri when Taum Sauk Dam burst.



Luckily, there was no community in the water's path. There was total devastation tho.



If anyone is wondering what their highest evacuation route is for flooding, you can get Google Earth, choose a route and click to view the elevation for that route.



To find the exact GPS latitude and longitude coordinates of a point on Google maps along with the altitude/elevation above sea level, simply drag the marker in the map below to the point you require. Alternatively enter the location name in the search bar then drag the resulting marker to the precise position.

I know that my home sits at 22 ft above sea level.
It sits on an elevated foundation of 10 ft which makes my floor at 32 feet above sea level.
I know which routes will be flooded out when water reaches 22 ft above sea level. I know which routes will not flood out till 40 ft above sea level.
I know that my truck will operate in 3 ft of water (yup, its been in a creek or two).
I know these things because I live in an area that has those threats.

Many people don't understand the threats for where they live. They don't know what to do in the types of emergencies prone to their location.
They are not prepared.
It takes a few hours a year to stay on top of it.
Could save your life or the life of someone you love.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 10:11 AM
Edited by Tom4Uhere on Sun 08/12/18 10:13 AM
protection from overhead trees

The power companies have been trimming back trees from powerlines for quite some time in all parts of the US.
It only makes sense.

My sis, who lives in PA at the highest elevation of her county had the power supply ripped right off the pole and off the house during a storm when a tree branch hit it. She did without electric service for 2 weeks while she fixed it and since it was her pole, she had to pay for the repairs and the materials. She also had to pay a disconnect/reconnect fee to the electric company after she paid them to inspect her work.
Just a lil gas in a chainsaw could have prevented thousands of dollars in repairs and a couple weeks of limited electricity (they had to buy a generator too).

Narlycarnk's photo
Sun 08/12/18 12:01 PM
I am actually thinking of a tree farm surrounded by new development and I was trying to think of a way to have residences throughout the forest without disrupting the root zone, so people can enjoy the forest by living there, as a more productive land use than continuing as a tree farm with traditional harvest intervals, which would be the other possibility. With the said plan, the harvest method could be changed to a slow ongoing harvest, which is less economic but has higher ecological quality. The residences inevitably have some adverse effect on wildlife but the aim would be to preserve the natural setting. There is a neighborhood nearby which periodically floods inside people's houses, and I was thinking the same thing could be done and the urban land be converted to wetlands (at the same time the road base soil could be trucked out to fill nearby low roads which are frequently unparkable and impassible due to nuisance flooding) but this part of the plan is a bit speculative because it would have to depend on what the residents want and reforestation would be needed. The existing forest is already high quality, but an integrated pest management is needed for tick and mosquito issues. Those species are not needed for the ecosystem. However, their breeding conditions would need to be minimized where they don’t affect other species and natural predators would need to be established.

no photo
Sun 08/12/18 04:06 PM
the parking garage would flood, unless elevated above flood zone.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sun 08/12/18 04:35 PM

I am actually thinking of a tree farm surrounded by new development and I was trying to think of a way to have residences throughout the forest without disrupting the root zone, so people can enjoy the forest by living there, as a more productive land use than continuing as a tree farm with traditional harvest intervals, which would be the other possibility. With the said plan, the harvest method could be changed to a slow ongoing harvest, which is less economic but has higher ecological quality. The residences inevitably have some adverse effect on wildlife but the aim would be to preserve the natural setting. There is a neighborhood nearby which periodically floods inside people's houses, and I was thinking the same thing could be done and the urban land be converted to wetlands (at the same time the road base soil could be trucked out to fill nearby low roads which are frequently unparkable and impassible due to nuisance flooding) but this part of the plan is a bit speculative because it would have to depend on what the residents want and reforestation would be needed. The existing forest is already high quality, but an integrated pest management is needed for tick and mosquito issues. Those species are not needed for the ecosystem. However, their breeding conditions would need to be minimized where they don’t affect other species and natural predators would need to be established.

The thing that one must remember is that tree roots find their own way to the nutrients they need. Not only will they 'break pavement and foundations', they will 'go around' obstacles. I had a problem with a tree root system breaking the foundation at my sister's house. We tried digging out and cutting the roots but they came back and the only way to end the foundation damage was to kill and remove the tree.
In a forest setting, if you kill and remove a tree other vegetation will try to occupy that space. Think over-grown rain forest roads in Brazil.
The only way to preserve a path is to kill the land and keep the land dead. If that maintenance is not maintained over time, eventually, nature will reclaim it.
There already is such a thing known as Passive Harvesting. Not every forest being harvested is clear cut and then replanted. Clear cutting usually has a different motive than merely harvesting. One such motive that comes to mind is clearing land for farming. The harvest is but a step in the process instead of the reason behind the clear cut.

Insecticidal pests have been studied to death. We know what causes mosquitoes and ticks. Mosquitoes are borne by standing water and ticks by underbrush. If you engineer your community to have little underbrush and little standing water the infestation is diminished. Plus, communities, since our understanding of the threat became better known, spray for insect control on a regular basis. I see (and hear) the spray trucks as they make their way thru the neighborhood.

What is plain to see that most people don't pay attention to is the fact that our population levels have already started to affect the ecological balance of populated areas. Its only going to get worse as time marches on.
Most people fight nature.
Look at lawn care.
How many people do you know that never cut their grass, ever?
How does it feel when a new road is laid and its smooth sailing all the way to the bank, the store or your job?
How many people let nature invade their space?
We beat it back constantly.
You let vines grow into your roof and soon you have a roof that is leaking and weather gets in. You a/c or heating system doesn't work so well anymore. Critters start to set up nests in your adobe.
Of all the animals on this planet, we hate nature the most.

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