Very interesting Feral.

What were the Petty Kingdoms?

Do you know what part of Noah's family was populating Egypt after the flood?

Were all those people then descendants of people on the Ark?

I have a chart I want to send you to look at and I added this to it. Tell me what you think.



JB

What is a petty kingdom? Here is an objective Egyptian culture progressive timeline. If the flood took place at 2348BC, that would have meant ALL human life destroyed correct, including the Egyptians? I don’t want to put words into your mouth of course.

Earliest evidence of settled human habitation in the Nile delta
3800 BC

The beginnings of Nile culture
3100-2650 BC

Archaic Period
3100 BC

Earliest evidence of hieroglyphic writingin Egypt
3100 BC

The legendary king, Menes, unites the two kingdoms of Egypt
3000 BC

Earliest evidence of sun-worship in Egypt
2700-1640 BC

Pyramid-building period; largest pyramids built for Cheops, Chephren, and Mycerinus
2550-2490 BC

Building of the pyramid tombs for Khufu (Cheops) and Khephren (Chephren), the largest of the Egyptian pyramids
2650-2134 BC

Old Kingdom; beginning of the Third Dynasty
~2630 BC

Netcherike-Djoser, pharoah who built the the "Step" pyramid
2134-2040 BC

Collapse of the Sixth Dynasty and the Old Kingdom; beginning of the First Intermediate Period
2040-1640 BC

Middle Kingdom
1700 BC

Earliest evidence of diagnostic medicine in Egypt
1640-1550 BC

Collapse of the Middle Kingdom (1640 BC; beginning of the Second Intermediate Period
1550-1070 BC

New Kingdom; temple-building period in Egypt; the Temple of Karnak built and added to all through the New Kingdom period
~1500 BC

Earliest examples of the Book of the Dead
1380 BC

Building of the Temple of Luxor by Amenhotep III
1367-1350 BC

Reign of Amenhotep IV (Akhenaton), who abandoned Egyptian polytheism for a monotheistic religion
1347-1339 BC

Reign of Tutankhamon
1182-1151 BC

Reign of Ramses III; supposed period of Hebrew migration out of Egypt to Palestine
1070-712 BC

Collapse of New Kingdom (1070 BC; Third Intermediate Period
750 BC

Conquest of Egypt by Kush under Kashta and then Piankhy
712-332 BC

Late period
~670 BC

Formation of a new Ku****e kingdom at Meroë
332 BC

Invasion of Egypt by Alexander the Great
332 BC-395 AD

Hellenistic-Roman Period
332-31 BC

Ptolemaic Egypt
285-246 BC

Reign of Ptolemy II Philadelphus, who commissioned the Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah, the Septuagint
~170 BC

Aristobolus, the first Jewish Greek philosopher, presents an explanation of Mosaic scripture to Ptolemy VI Philometor
51-30 BC

Reign of Cleopatra VII, last of the Ptolemaic monarchs of Egypt
31 BC

Battle of Actium; Cleopatra VII and Mark Antony defeated by Augustus Caesar
30 BC-395 AD

Conquest of Egypt by Augustus Caesar; Roman period
66 AD

Jewish riots against Rome in Egypt
395 AD

Roman Empire divided into two empires; Egypt controlled by Byzantium
395-641 AD

Byzantine period; Egyptian hieroglyphic writing falls out of use and soon becomes unintelligible
641 AD

Conquest of Egypt by the Muslim Arabs; Egypt becomes Islamic

1822 AD

Jean François Champollion deciphers the system of Egyptian hieroglyphic writing from the Rosetta Stone

Well that's pretty conclusive.

The world-wide flood happened in a small area and then was "talked-up"

Something similar to the World Series only having two countries in (j/k)

JB

Very interesting Feral.

What were the Petty Kingdoms?

Do you know what part of Noah's family was populating Egypt after the flood?

Were all those people then descendants of people on the Ark?

I have a chart I want to send you to look at and I added this to it. Tell me what you think.


Debbie

God has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth (Acts 17:26). So therefore, if all are descended from Noah and his three sons, why are there so many different races on the earth?

Shem Ham and Japheth are the three sons of Noah: "and of them was the whole earth overspread" (Genesis 9:19). God repeated to Noah his command to Adam "Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth" (Genesis 1:28; 9:1). Homo Sapiens is one species: but a polymorphic species. Differences or mutations in the genes in the chromosomes cause perceived racial characteristics. Genesis 10 gives lists of the descendants of Japhet Ham and Shem. The Japhetic tribes seem to be Caucasian˜ Javan is Greece; Ashkenaz is Armenia and eastern Europe; Tarshish is Gibraltar and Spain. The Hamitic tribes seem to be African and Mesopotamian˜ Cush is Ethiopia; Mizraim is Egypt. Nimrod founded Babylon and built towns in Mesopotamia. Asshur founded Assyria and built Nineveh. Their Ziggurat (Tower of Babel) culture (Genesis 11:1-9) spread into Egypt, where the first pyramid (Cheops, the stepped pyramid) was modelled on the Mesopotamian Ziggurats. Canaan founded the Canaanite tribes of Palestine. The Semitic tribes include Eber the first Hebrew and Aram the first Aramaean. Abraham was descended from Eber, and was the father of Ishmael and Isaac, forefathers of the Arabs and of the Jews. Jacob (Israel) was a "wandering Aramaean" (Deuteronomy 26:5, RSV) who migrated to Egypt before his descendant Joshua returned to conquer Canaan after the Exodus.

In 1963 Sforza and Edwards published a study of human origins in the Journal of the Royal Anthropological Society. By analysing blood group gene frequencies they noted three main divisions of human races. (1) the Turkish, Caucasian and Scandinavian group; (2) the Ethiopian, Bantu and Ghanaian group; (3) a complex group including Asian, Amerindian, Eskimo and Oceanian peoples. Differences in genes arise from spontaneous mutations. Some had survival value in different climatic zones; therefore such strains became fixed in local populations.

The earth was only slowly repopulated after the Flood had killed all but the eight safe in the Ark at the end of the Chalcolithic (copper stone) Age in the 6th millennium BC. There is then a hiatus or gap in the archaeological record lasting from 1,000 to 1,500 years until we get to the Early Bronze Age circa 4,000 BC. It was during the upheaval of the Flood (circa 5000 BC) that Britain was cut off from Europe by the English Channel and the North Sea. The Flood was worldwide, not just a local Middle Eastern affair. The "Great Hiatus" or "Yawning Gap" as some archaeologists call it is worldwide. Archaeological observations tend to confirm the Bible account in Genesis 10, 11 and 12. So also do the scientific findings of Sforza and Edwards noted above. Writing was invented about 4300 BC; and the Wheel was another Bronze Age invention.

Archaeology shows that people migrated in all directions outwards from Ararat where the Ark came to rest. Some went up the Danube river into Europe (the Second Danubians, following the same route as the First Danubians after the Fall), and some along the Mediterranean coast. Others went northeast past the Caspian Sea into Asia and beyond to India, China, across the Bering Straits into Alaska and down the continent of America as far as Tierra del Fuego. Others went southeast into Mesopotamia, and southwest into Egypt, Ethiopia, and the rest of Africa. It took all of 1000 to 1500 years, depending on the physical distance from Ararat, for the burgeoning human tribes to spread out and refill the newly empty earth. As they spread, they took their seed corn (wheat) and their domestic animals (cattle sheep and dogs) with them. In central Asia rice was found to be an alternative staple for a wet climate; in America local maize did better than wheat (compare the Hiawatha legend). In America there were no European fauna like horses, donkeys, and cattle. When the Spanish conquistadores invaded America, riding on horseback, the Aztecs and Incas, who had never seen a horse before, fled panic-stricken. Yet archaeologists have found mass graves of animal bones, all impacted together in a broken brecchia, including those of horses and Eurasian cattle. America was repopulated with native fauna that had somehow survived the Flood. Likewise in Australia the marsupials survived. It seems that Australia alone remained high and dry throughout the Deluge. Incidentally the Flood was not caused by excessive rain falling. It was caused by the great masses of oceanic water slopping violently up and over the continents. Hence the damage to the animal remains in their mass "graves" as the waters receded.

Sunday school lessons on Noah's Ark need to be changed to prevent false ideas of the Flood being perpetuated. We need to study these things as adults, and not dismiss them as children's fairy tales. Have you ever seriously considered the book of Genesis since you were a child?

Deb were you going to show us how the flood worked into the Egyptian timeline or no?

Here it is according to what I got from Feral of the timing of the Global flood.... I made it in bold...



Earliest evidence of settled human habitation in the Nile delta
3800 BC

The beginnings of Nile culture
3100-2650 BC

Archaic Period
3100 BC

Earliest evidence of hieroglyphic writingin Egypt
3100 BC

The legendary king, Menes, unites the two kingdoms of Egypt
3000 BC

Earliest evidence of sun-worship in Egypt
2700-1640 BC

Pyramid-building period; largest pyramids built for Cheops, Chephren, and Mycerinus
2550-2490 BC

Building of the pyramid tombs for Khufu (Cheops) and Khephren (Chephren), the largest of the Egyptian pyramids
2650-2134 BC

Old Kingdom; beginning of the Third Dynasty
~2630 BC


2313 Global Flood (One hundred seventy nine years before Netcherike-Djoser pharoah. (How is he related to Noah?)


Netcherike-Djoser, pharoah who built the the "Step" pyramid
2134-2040 BC

Collapse of the Sixth Dynasty and the Old Kingdom; beginning of the First Intermediate Period
2040-1640 BC

Middle Kingdom
1700 BC

Earliest evidence of diagnostic medicine in Egypt
1640-1550 BC

Collapse of the Middle Kingdom (1640 BC; beginning of the Second Intermediate Period
1550-1070 BC

New Kingdom; temple-building period in Egypt; the Temple of Karnak built and added to all through the New Kingdom period
~1500 BC

Earliest examples of the Book of the Dead
1380 BC

Building of the Temple of Luxor by Amenhotep III
1367-1350 BC

Reign of Amenhotep IV (Akhenaton), who abandoned Egyptian polytheism for a monotheistic religion
1347-1339 BC

Reign of Tutankhamon
1182-1151 BC

Reign of Ramses III; supposed period of Hebrew migration out of Egypt to Palestine
1070-712 BC

Collapse of New Kingdom (1070 BC; Third Intermediate Period
750 BC

Conquest of Egypt by Kush under Kashta and then Piankhy
712-332 BC

Late period
~670 BC

Formation of a new Ku****e kingdom at Meroë
332 BC

Invasion of Egypt by Alexander the Great
332 BC-395 AD

Hellenistic-Roman Period
332-31 BC

Ptolemaic Egypt
285-246 BC

Reign of Ptolemy II Philadelphus, who commissioned the Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah, the Septuagint
~170 BC

Aristobolus, the first Jewish Greek philosopher, presents an explanation of Mosaic scripture to Ptolemy VI Philometor
51-30 BC

Reign of Cleopatra VII, last of the Ptolemaic monarchs of Egypt
31 BC

Battle of Actium; Cleopatra VII and Mark Antony defeated by Augustus Caesar
30 BC-395 AD

Conquest of Egypt by Augustus Caesar; Roman period
66 AD

Jewish riots against Rome in Egypt
395 AD

Roman Empire divided into two empires; Egypt controlled by Byzantium
395-641 AD

Byzantine period; Egyptian hieroglyphic writing falls out of use and soon becomes unintelligible
641 AD

Conquest of Egypt by the Muslim Arabs; Egypt becomes Islamic

1822 AD

Jean François Champollion deciphers the system of Egyptian hieroglyphic writing from the Rosetta Stone

Okay so my question now is why was there no break in culture if they were completely washed away? Also, Egyptians were actually mummifying their dead during this period. Wouldn’t a massive flood of the caliber we have been discussing wash those bodies away and destroy them? We have recovered several. Not to mention artifacts etc...


Deb Im going to throw this out here to show I am making an effort to be supportive of the flood geology theory. What if it happened but just not world wide?

Year AM Event
1557 Noah Begets Ham

1656 Noah's Flood
Ham Begets Mitzraim. Mitzraim founds Egypt
Mitzraim begets Anom (becomes the god Amon- Ra)
... Begets ... Gap of 209-212 years

2216 Joseph sold in to Egypt - Jasher 59

2228 or 9 Joseph interprets Pharaohs dream - Jasher 59 (Joseph becomes the god Sarapis)

2238 Jacob (130) goes to Egypt

2255 Jacob dies, Zepho captured - Jasher 56-57

2270 Magron (Son of Josephs Pharaoh) becomes Pharaoh - Jasher 58

2288 Sons of Jacob fought with the sons of Esau

2309 Joseph dies

2310 Magron dies, Zepho flees from Egypt to Angeas of Africa
Angeas of Africa wars with Turnus of Bibentu - Jasher

60
Unknown Pharaoh rules from 2310 to 2340, or

30 years

2313 Zepho flees from Angeas of Africa to Chittim
Angeas builds aqueducts for water
Zepho repels Angeas from Chittim

2317 Zepho unites all of Italy and becomes the first Roman King. - Jasher 62:1

2329 Africa attacks Chittim - Jasher 62:25

2340 Melol (Son of ?) becomes Pharaoh - Jasher 63:4,9

2340 Zepho destroys African invasion fleet - Jahser 63

Angeas and Lucas attack Chittim - Edom refuses to help Chittim - Zepho prays
Chitim (Zepho) and Edom attack Egypt and lose

2367 Janeas becomes king of Rome

2368 Moses born

2386 Moses Kills the Egyptian at 18 and flees to the land of Cush - Jasher 71

2395 King Kikianus of Cush dies and Moses is made king of Cush.- Jasher 73

2411 Angeas king of Africa dies, Azdrubal his son takes his throne - Jahser 74

2417 Janeas king of Rome dies and Latinus becomes king of Rome - Jasher 74

2421 Latanus of Rome attacks Azdrubal of Africa. Azdrubal dies and his brother Anibal becomes king of Africa

2421-39 Anibal wars with Rome - Jasher 74

2434 Melol rules for 94 years - Jasher 63:9

2444 Melol sick for 10 years - Jasher 77:3

2444 Adikam (son of Melol) becomes Pharaoh - Jasher 77:1,3

2448 Adikam does not return to Egypt Jasher 81:40,41

2448 Exodus

2448 The Ten Commandments given by God (the 430 years ends; Gal. 3:16,17)

2462 King Latinus of Rome dies - Jasher 74

2463 Abianus becomes king of Rome

2494 Abianus captures Edom

2501 Abianus dies and Latinus II becomes king of Rome - Jasher 90:28,29

2551 Latinus II dies

Notes:
While Abraham was in Egypt they did worship “the gods” and had customs very different to other tribes - Josephus 1.8
Margon hands everything over to Joseph, during which time Joseph subdued kingdoms from the Philistines, Canaan, Zidon, and as far as the other side of Jordan. While Joseph was ruling Children of Esau with Ishmaelites and Angeas, king of Dinhabah attack Israel and Egypt at Rameses.

The children of Israel called Melol the king of Egypt "Meror, king of Egypt," because in his days the Egyptians had embittered their lives with all manner of work. Pharaoh Adikam was called Adikam Ahuz, for Ahuz means short in the Egyptian language. After the army of Egypt is wiped out in the red sea. he is the only survivor. He does not return to Egypt but lives out the rest of his days in Nineveh.

I’m not seeing how that "timeline" really represents anything. Its apples and oranges? Also with or without a timeline, probably there should still be an explanation for why there was

A. No mention of the flood by a highly literate people

B. No known or established break in their culture.

C. Why is there no evidence of flood in Egypt and why do we have so much of their antiquity intact and on record in museums today with virtually no water damage of any kind?

C. There was no evidence of the flood in Egyptians records because they were all DEAD. I just watched a program (last night) where the very earth herself has recorded the flood within her crust. Not to mention seashells on the tops of mountains. How did they get there? Also there would be no Egyptians left to write the history. There were only eight people left alive after the flood...Noah and his family.

B. What was their culture before the flood? We don't know, because it was all washed away.

A. Here is your ancient highly literate mention from around the world:

Flood Legends from Around the World

Africa

Southwest Tanzania
Once upon a time the rivers began to flood. The god told two people to get into a ship. He told them to take lots of seed and to take lots of animals. The water of the flood eventually covered the mountains. Finally the flood stopped. Then one of the men, wanting to know if the water had dried up let a dove loose. The dove returned. Later he let loose a hawk which did not return. Then the men left the boat and took the animals and the seeds with them.

Asia

China
The Chinese classic called the Hihking tells about "the family of Fuhi," that was saved from a great flood. This ancient story tells that the entire land was flooded; the mountains and everything, however one family survived in a boat. The Chinese consider this man the father of their civilization. This record indicates that Fuhi, his wife, three sons, and three daughters were the only people that escaped the great flood. It is claimed, that he and his family were the only people alive on earth, and repopulated the world.

Babylon
Gilgamesh met an old man named Utnapishtim, who told him the following story. The gods came to Utnapishtim to warn him about a terrible flood that was coming. They instructed Utnapishtim to destroy his house and build a large ship. The ship was to be 10 dozen cubits high, wide and long. Utnapishtim was to cover the ship with pitch. He was supposed to take male and female animals of all kinds, his wife and family, provisions, etc. into the ship. Once ship was completed the rain began falling intensely. The rain fell for six days and nights. Finally things calmed and the ship settled on the top of Mount Nisir. After the ship had rested for seven days Utnapishtim let loose a dove. Since the land had not dried the dove returned. Next he sent a swallow which also returned. Later he let loose a raven which never returned since the ground had dried. Utnapishtim then left the ship.

Chaldean
There was a man by the name of Xisuthrus. The god Chronos warned Xisuthrus of a coming flood and told him to build a boat. The boat was to be 5 stadia by 2 stadia. In this boat Xisuthrus was to put his family, friends and two of each animal (male and female). The flood came. When the waters started to recede he let some birds loose. They came back and he noticed they had mud on their feet. He tried again with the same results. When he tried the third time the birds did not return. Assuming the water had dried up the people got out of the boat and offered sacrifices to the gods.

India
A long time ago lived a man named Manu. Manu, while washing himself, saved a small fish from the jaws of a large fish. The fish told Manu, "If you care for me until I am full grown I will save you from terrible things to come". Manu asked what kind of terrible things. The fish told Manu that a great flood would soon come and destroy everything on the earth. The fish told Manu to put him in a clay jar for protection. The fish grew and each time he outgrew the clay jar Manu gave him a larger one. Finally the fish became a ghasha, one of the largest fish in the world. The fish instructed Manu to build a large ship since the flood was going to happen very soon. As the rains started Manu tied a rope from the ship to the ghasha. The fish guided the ship as the waters rose. The whole earth was covered by water. When the waters began subsiding the ghasha led Manu's ship to a mountaintop.

Australia

There is a legend of a flood called the Dreamtime flood. Riding on this flood was the woramba, or the Ark Gumana. In this ark was Noah, Aborigines, and various animals. This ark eventually came to rest in the plain of Djilinbadu where it can still be found. They claim that the white mans story about the ark landing in the middle east is a lie that was started to keep the aborigines in subservience. This legend is undoubtedly the product of aboriginal legends merging with those of visiting missionaries, and there does not appear to be any native flood stories from Australia.

Europe

Greece
A long time ago, perhaps before the golden age was over, humans became proud. This bothered Zeus as they kept getting worse. Finally Zeus decided that he would destroy all humans. Before he did this Prometheus, the creator of humans, warned his human son Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha. Prometheus then placed this couple in a large wooden chest. The rains started and lasted nine days and nights until the whole world was flooded. The only thing that was not flooded was the peaks of Mount Parnassus and Mount Olympus. Mount Olympus is the home of the gods. The wooden chest came to rest on Mount Parnassus. Deucalion and his wife Pyrrha got out and saw that everything was flooded. The lived on provisions from the chest until the waters subsided. At Zeus' instruction they re-populated the earth.

North America

Mexico
The Toltec natives have a legend telling that the original creation lasted for 1716 years, and was destroyed by a flood and only one family survived.

Aztec- A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.

United States
The Ojibwe natives who have lived in Minnesota USA since approximately 1400AD also have a creation and flood story that closely paralleles the Biblical account. "There came a time when the harmonious way of life did not continue. Men and women disrespected each other, families quarreled and soon villages began arguing back and forth. This saddened Gitchie Manido [the Creator] greatly, but he waited. Finally, when it seemed there was no hope left, Creator decided to purify Mother Earth through the use of water. The water came, flooding the Earth, catching all of creation off guard. All but a few of each living thing survived." Then it tells how Waynaboozhoo survived by floating on a log in the water with various animals.
Ojibwe - Ancient native American creation story tells of world wide flood.

Delaware Indians - In the pristine age, the world lived at peace; but an evil spirit came and caused a great flood. The earth was submerged. A few persons had taken refuge on the back of a turtle, so old that his shell had collected moss. A loon flew over their heads and was entreated to dive beneath the water and bring up land. It found only a bottomless sea. Then the bird flew far away, came back with a small portion of earth in its bill, and guided the tortoise to a place where there was a spot of dry land.

South America

Inca
During the period of time called the Pachachama people became very evil. They got so busy coming up with and performing evil deeds they neglected the gods. Only those in the high Andes remained uncorrupted. Two brothers who lived in the highlands noticed their llamas acting strangely. They asked the llamas why and were told that the stars had told the llamas that a great flood was coming. This flood would destroy all the life on earth. The brothers took their families and flocks into a cave on the high mountains. It started to rain and continued for four months. As the water rose the mountain grew keeping its top above the water. Eventually the rain stopped and the waters receded. The mountain returned to its original height. The shepherds repopulated the earth. The llamas remembered the flood and that is why they prefer to live in the highland areas.




Shalom!

If the flood wiped out all of creation, and Noah and his family were the only ones saved, how come there are different faces in the world

With only 4000 years between the flood and now, how did the tall black Africans become different from the short Asians or the white Europeans, or even the structural human physiology of the Australian indigenous population?

and between 3000 BCE and 7000BCE there is archeological chinese culture evidence.

According to Nina Jablonski's research, it wouldn't take longer than 1000 years for the skin color of one group of people to change from light to dark or vis versa.

The MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) was between 2,000 and 5,000 years ago. That means that EVERYBODY alive today is related to a woman who lived between 2-5k years ago. This isn't biased science, it's just science.

Exactly.

So if you start of with a person who is a kind of light brown colour and he is (for the sake of discussion) 5foot 10.

How did he/she/it (for the want of a better pronoun) turn into a 7foot 2 Masai, or a 6foot 6 Dutch guy or a 5 foot 2 pygmy?

All of different colour pigmentation.

and 5000 years ... that would put it before the flood, there by indicating that not everyone died.

I have answered I will not anymore........It's been answered and you don't like it...so search on your own to find the answers that fit what you want to see......good idea....good......

They have not been answered Deb. A lot of copy and pasted stuff from circa 1970 just will not cut it. Im sorry but thats the truth.

Then find the answers that fit also what you believe......I am done with this question stick a fork in me done......

Fine Deb and thanks for trying. Why do you think Belushi is still questioning also? We just are not satisfied with it yet.

Thanks for trying are you new....Just because it's not answered the way you think it should does not mean that it's not answered......pfftttt



It's your gig.....do it on your own then it's getting old.



Try the original hebrew bible.......

Deb, please I am saying THANK YOU. I mean that. Im still a little curious okay? What do you want from me here?

take away the underlining smug would be a start.