I noticed alot of people fed up with "church as usual". The church of today is a far cry from the New Testament model and we've become a mockery to many outside of Christ, turning them away from salvation and relationship with God in droves.

I believe that many christians are 'groaning' for somthing MORE than corporate church distracted by money and fame and led by pharisees who love to wear their gown and cap like 'dunces'.

Dubbed "Church of the Homeless" because many christians even don't want to go to church and play the game anymore. the remnant that seeks passion and power that have been replaced by over priced mens retreats and church 'pet' projects.

The American church is a joke and I think christ would say so, and if He showed up, they would crucify Him all over again.

I'll be back tommorrow, but I want to hear what passions lie dormant in anyones desire for a true Church that has more than form. What do you see, what is your desire 'to' see. Please share. Also, post prayer requests and let's see God move...shall we?

I'm hoping there's some of you out there.

from the street

From what I understand, church is supposed to be a gathering of fellow christians to publicly praise and worship the Lord, together as one.

Alot of churches have strayed, or have been on the worng path all along, but there are still a few true churches, unfortunately they are becoming more and more rare.


It's time for true church to make a come back.

That's the whole point i suppose I'm making. Christ without 'religion'. Love without fear. Grandmas bake sale is fine, but it's not changing peoples hearts to stop killing their unborn. All the unsaved people see is haughtiness and lawyers and scholars in pulpits telling them what to do and demanding money to do it. SICK.

I'll do it this way. You put faith that God will move onto this post and we'll see what happens to whatever request you have. Be sensitive to your heart and God will speak to you. I want to pray for anyone who wants to dare soemone to pray for your need.
I'll take the time to do mail back and forth to keep track if you wish. Where 2 or 3 agree, Gods Spirit is with them.

here's the deal.no.1 im a big jesus fan.but i do not go to church.the church of today is goin against jesus and they r what he was teaching against.its simple if u r judgemental,self rightous,or racist u r against jesus.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct sir. "Judge not" is what God says. We are to Judge and discern spirits and right from wrong but the 'passing' of judgement (ie sentencing or exacting penalties for punishment-discipline) is reserved for God. God chastises His children in love as a parent would.

Jesus united ALL people also "to the Jew and to the Greek"

Also, self righteousness was the sin and the fall of the pharisees who were the supposed "religious leaders" of the day. the real enemies of Jesus were exactly the ones who pretended to know God. God hung out at the bars and loved the sin stained people with compassion. The religious ones eventually killed Him.

Many parallels to modern day 'church', doncha think?

Trust Him- "to feel God move you've gotta let go of the whiskers"-Sivion

Here's my take on your comment.
I agree with what you're saying...And I don't.

The concept of a church is to be closer to god...To be "In His house". Nothing could be more false. God doesn't write books, or build houses...That's MAN'S attempt to pidgion-hole him..To "put him in a box" sort to speak. He doesn't work that way.

You are god...You carry him in your heart. He is you.

...What's the building for? You don't need it.
I say, abandon the brick-and mortar "house of god" concept altogether.

I understand your philosophy sir, I really do. For a time I believed as you do. Then I pinpointed the origin, and it wasn't me after all. I had the ability to tap into a limitless resource which was outside of my own being. Once you feel Gods love RUSH through you all philosophy becomes fodder in your mind. I don't even think the Bible itself scratches the surface of what Go is capable of. our minds couldn't handle the complexities. That's why no man can see the Father and remain alive. It would literally kill you with awe.

A man is not God though, men cannot add an inch to his own stature, we are "as the Bible says" sheep, easily led astray. And calling us sheep was no compliment, they are'dumb' animals.

i am of the church of what's happening now. and what r u doing about it...

You're not gonna try to put a bag on my head are you? I saw that one.

Well, as anticipated, the religious people here are happier debating and playing word wrestling, as is the main problem with church in the first place. I am truly saddened by this. But it was exspected. The STUPID evolution vs creation forum will see no end, but offer something that doesn't feed religious ego and get shunned. this is a microcosm of America as a whole. I think the religious have doomed american Christianity into mediocrity.

If i can find Just one brother on here who will agree with me I may withstand continueing on this site with a purpose. If not, I will put efforts elsewhere.

The bottom line for me is that I don’t buy into the whole ‘salvation’ thing. So as soon as the word ‘salvation’ is even mentioned the religion has lost my interest. You mentioned the idea of ‘salvation’ in your very first paragraph of the OP.

I’m just not interested in groveling religions. Period.

I just don’t believe that god is obsessed with sin and salvation. I believe that is entirely a manmade idea. To me that whole view of god is very negative and demeaning view. I want no parts of it.

I’d rather we just do away with public religions altogether and make them a private personal thing. That way the ones who feel that they need salvation can view god in that way, and the ones who don’t won’t become the target of judgmental bigotry by the former.

Just my thoughts.

nuenjins, I have some questions for you. I address you, any in this thread with respect. So I hope your disappointment does not contaminate the honest nature of my questions.

I believe, in the truest sense of the word 'church' that the purpose was for people of like minds to share communion, one to another. It was not specifically a means of segregation (from a world of unbelievers) but rather a place to feel 'accepted' a place without animosity, without the eyes of judgment from peers whose beliefs are not the same.

I have to agree with you, that this in no longer the description of what a church is today. However, even if it were the case, why do you feel it is necessary to do good works only within a Christian group setting?

Is not good, just and right action better than a prayer chain? If someone is in need is prayer the only action a Christian can take?

What I don't understand is why, you feel the need to 'reorganize' an organization that has failed to work as a group. Is it not possible the actions of a single Christian or Christian family to be as powerful as the actions of an organized congregation?

Just wondering what it is you are really trying to do.

Don't feel alone. I do not really know many who would agree or who wants to hear what I have to say. I do not water down the truth aand people do not like that. niether can they show where I speak lies to them because it is all right out of the Book. The best thing I ever did was leave mainstream chr-stianity over 17 years ago. That was when I grew it was between me and Yahshua then. As i studied i found like minded people and had to move on as profounds truths Yahshua taught moved all of us. But your desire to search is commendable. Yahshua tells us to do just that. He promices if you come to him with a pure heart that he will show you the way. My sheep hear my voice. Is very true. You have to realize though what we are seeing in the churches is prophisied. He said if it were possible even the very elect would be decieved. I wrote the other night about what Sodom and Gomorrah was here and well and it was not what people think. Most thread I have found once I give serious about the bible the thread stops. Noone wants to hear it. If they do listen then they know are condemning themselves. So they leave. That is just the way it is. My job is not to try to save someone. No but to give them the tools they need to fight the good fight putting on the full armour of Yahweh.When you come to that point of letting the scriptures speak to you and not man then you can look around you and see what is happening and why. Prophesy is before us the 4th horse of rev could come very quickly as men in power and the rich will not suffer untill the poor turns on them in groves because they have turned almost insane from the hunger they feel and thier children feel. So many things happening that the ch-rches do not see because the ministers are not teaching the Evangel. It is watered down with the laws they want. As you said they are thier own pharasee. Religion gives men hiding behind it great power and statue. The same as the pharasee's of Yahshua's time did. They saw the prophesies that Yahshua was talking about was about them. So they set out to kill him even before John the Baptists lost his head. The plan is in motion. It is in motion now also but never believe Yahweh is not in control. Believe what the spirit of truth is really telling you as a child and a new world will open up to you. Take Care May Yahweh Touch You With The Spirit That Never Dies.....Blessings....Miles

This isn't a debate forum, debates have been overused here and are frankly quite boring. You don't "have to" believe. I'm simply trying to group some fire together and get some movement.

Honestly bro., it's not my 'job' to convince you.

Telling the truth is what I'm doing, which "sets you free" as the 'saying' goes.

Never said so called "good works" had to have any setting. And this forum is not intended for a mere prayer chain, it's a place to find unity for those who 'want more' and would like to come out with it, possibly ,dare I say, actually do somthing about it and counteract it for the sake of outsiders if nothing else. People need to know that there are even 'Christians' who are sick of 'corporate church' and spiritual laziness.

Let the truth come out, for all to see.

So your goal is to prove that there are Christians who have a personal relationship with their faith? Is that correct?

That has already been seen, countless times in these threads. There are a great many who are satisfied with their personal faith. They are not looking for a 'group' setting.

So what it is you would have other discuss, or learn in this environment?

I feel persistance is requried as you have given no information with which others can relate and respond.

You might want to try again with a more clearly stated question, idea or goal, if you wish to have respondants.

Thanks miles. You have a 'kindred' spirit. i really don't care if the truth scares some, because the cost of not telling it is the most horrible consequence imaginable. i'll be glad to be publically humiliated if need be for the true cause of Christ. I breathe it everyday, I only feel alive when I'm being who God intended me to be.

In this forum, please No- blah blah blah evolution

blah blah blah tinky winky

" " prayer in schools

It's the wrong battle to fight and all this debate just sucks humongous egg shells. Bore me already. people aren't 'attracted' to that. " Let your' light shine" doesn't translate "dump your' immense plethora of knowledge on the world.

Paul taught the 'simple' gospel truth. It was the 'Holy Spirits' job to prick their hearts. Jesus didn't sit around debating, He showed 'power' and made frinds with those who needed Him.

OK.So everyone wants some beyond logic truth that will concretre this whole' debate sucks' idea. If anyone would like to follow up and has courage to step up please do.

I had a friend who was remodeling and putting an addition on his house. It was supposed to rain HEAVILY that afternoon and when the storm came close the workers started packing up who were remodeling. My friend felt in his spirit to say "don't pack up, it isn't going to rain here". They didn't listen. He went and got pizza for the workers to encourage them to stay. When he came back, allthe workers were almost done packing up, on the verge of wrapping it up. The storm was visible from where they stood. My friend said " I thought i told you guys it wasn't going to rain on my property". They sneered and responded as if he was delusional. Rolling eyes and such. They stayed just to watch the storm finish coming in a couple of miles off in order to prove him wrong and have a good laugh. As the storm approached my friend held his breath thinking, "am I nuts?".

The rain clouds hit the exact line of his property, rainig on one side. The cloud deviated 'down his property line' as a wall of rain bordered his lawn. The rain hit the corner of his property, the wall of rain hooked left, and then proceeded in the same manner all the way down the other side.

The rain NEVER touched his land.

This isn't a fable. This guy works in Butler county PA with PA Careerlink.

The workers were all And almost immediately after that one of the construction guys ran up to him and said "please pray for my family, my wife and I are having problems". SWEEET

That's what's up , debate the crap out of whatever pet peeve you got, this stuff is REAL.

Anyone else?

The Bible says we need 'unity'. We are"not to forsake assemblying together", I'm not a rogue christian. I am a brother calling to my family. I'm not here to establish myself or my faith even. I'm here to get a job done. The most important job ever, and no man should walk alone if he doen't have to.

I know many are satified, but being satisfied with yourself while forsaking brotherhood and ignoring what we are called to do is just complacency. Maybe some just want to 'exist' but I refuse to. Faith with "action". Without it, your faith is a dream you keep under your pillow, a spiritual Santa Clause who's belly you rub for 'good luck'. Which is basically what Catholisim is, a'form' of godliness, but denying the power. Rules and traditions and useless ritual. No offence to catholics as a people, it's just that there is a fake 'pricipality' that is in most of what that 'establishment' does and teaches.

engage nuenjins and walk with him a while.

be with him a while.

observe him a while.

know him at all.