voil writes:

Your reply didn't clear much up for me. Not absolutely sure yet, but leaning towards 'closet' or 'under-cover fundie'. I could be wrong, and as I said, your reply didn't help clarify, if anything, it was ambiguous.

Sort of leaving me wondering about you.

As for me, feralcatlady, I think fundamentalism is unhealthy, and I for one denounce it vigourouly. 'fundies' would probably put it this '... hate the sin, not the sinner'.

So likewise, I hate fundamentalism and denouce it, but I love and have compassion for the 'fundie', and will do all that I possibly can to help the 'fundie' correct his sinful and unhealthy ways.

Answer:

Here ya go......can't make it any clearer.
Am I a fundamentalist.......yes if you want to say that I believe what I believe and I adhere to these beliefs.....But am I intolerant of others views NO I AM NOT....CAN'T GET ANY CLEARER THEN THAT.....And yes yelling it because how many times can I say it.

Voil wrote:

When you are ready explain your veiled and reversed logic accusations, and resume exchanging with me in good faith, I'll be happy to respond in kind.

Answer: I neither have veiled nor reversed logic you just don't pay attention. And everything I asked was out of wanting to know....but that also works the other way around.....which I don't really think you care one way or the other. You like abra just want to keep spewing your beliefs and damn the others.....and if I see that wrong then please correct me with a plausible explanation.

Voil wrote:

Until then, I'll treat you as 'double-agent', hoping that you will join me in denouncing 'fundamentalism', and saving the 'fundies' from this unhealthy psychosis, and sinful behavior. 'giggle, giggle'!!! (that's humourous sarcasm!!!)

Answer: Not judging huh. You need to practice what you preach......giggle giggle tee hee

There you go 'feralcatlady'!!!

Congratulations!!!

It takes a lot of courage to come out of the closet, and I salute you for it.

I know you must feel sort of 'naked' right now. I mean, finally being honest and straight about your sinful ways!

But don't worry. You are not alone. We help rehabilitate a greater and greater number of delusional and hurting 'fundamentals', away from sin and toward the light.

Count on me 'feralcatlady', I'm there to help with your rehabilitation.

YOU, 'feralcatlady' have a reformist friend in me. Through good times and bad times, I'll be there fo you. Every step of your 'fundie-correction' rehabilitation, I'll be there for you.

Again, 'feralcatlady', 'giggle, giggle', and double 'thumbs-ups' for finally being honest and coming out of the 'fundie' closet!

voil......Are you that ignorant.....I have never been anything but honest and straight forward....what are you smoking?
And what sinful ways? I think you hanging out with abra way to much.....he has turned you brain to mush. And I would rather be a fundie as you call it then just plain ignorant and lost. Trust me babe on this.......I know who, I am and where I fit in the scheme of life....Can you the same?

And help of Heaven forbid.

help me.....HEAVEN FORBID

feralcatlady,

I understand. Your reaction is perfectly normal and to be expected throughout the period of detoxification.

The 'fundie' cultish ways create a powerful dependency on their followers. The withdrawal period can bring up severe reactions of anger, paranoïa, verbal and psychological abuse.

But not to worry, I will be there to see you through this, and I promise I won't take any of your abuse personnally.

We're off on a 'great' start 'feralcatlady'.

Here's a 'giggle-giggle' from me to you!

How does it feel to be in voilland.....where only you know what is happening......I do understand that in voilworld you like it cuz everybody there likes you......its just to bad your the only one inhabiting your planet.

And I just had a major breakthrough with abra...if you go look at my thread things to ponder....I know get him.....don't agree still some of what he says...but at least I get him now.

feralcatlady,

In spite of the abuse, I must say that you are making tremendous progress.

You're getting a taste, and a real sense of what an encounter with delusional 'fundies' is like, you know the part about '... where only you ('fundies and their flexible and adaptable truth') know what is happening...'.  That's exactly the sensation in 'fundieworld'. The 'detox' is working overtime with you 'catlady'.

Breakthrough with Abra!!! That's great!!! You are but a coming along just swell! Keep up the good work.

And if you're ready to conceive exchanging in good faith, I'm ready to leave 'voilland', or 'voilworld' as you say, just to meet you in 'fundie-free' land!

What do you say???

I say your an arrogant jerk......and when you can realize that my beliefs are just fine and I don't need any psycho babble or help from you....then I would say we can carry this to the next level...and maybe debate other things....who knows......But I think it might be awhile before you allowed off your planet....even if good behavior is involved.

feralcatlady,

Insults, reversed logic accusations, attempts, however juvenile, at ridiculizing and discrediting the 'imaginary ennemy', we're doing great 'feralcatlady'!!!

All the worn out tactics of the sinful fundamentalist artillery are being exorcized from your being.

And don't worry, as I said before, I won't take any of it personnally. I'm just here to see you through this liberating process. Like Jesus, I never expected it to be a popularity contest.

You can count on me 'giggle-giggle' sister, I won't let you down in your hour of need.

If you feel more insults, reversed logic accusations, or any other 'fundie' tactic coming up, go ahead sister, spew them out. It will free you up from this fundie 'straightjacket' you've been wearing for way too long!!!

Abra said:

"I don’t have “blind faith’ in the Bible. On the contrary, I’ll examine it rationally with the brain that God gave me to use for this purpose. To do anything less would be to reject the very gifts that God has given me."

>>> I wouldn't expect you to do less - however it puzzles me that you prefer to rationalize the bible rather than reason it - as you have done with Panthism. Why is that?

argue argue

***** *****

argue ***** argue *****

...oops wrong thread...

LOL !!!

I have tried to reason the Bible. I find it unreasonable.

What can I say?

Pantheism makes sense. I can’t find any reason to knock it. I’m not saying that it is necessarily true, but as far as I can see everything points toward it, including scientific observations, and nothing denies it.

The biblical picture is exactly the opposite. To try to believe the Bible verbatim makes absolute no sense to me at all. It denies itself. Even physical science opposes it if it is taken verbatim.

So then we’re left with the only alternative, and that is to take it allegorically. However, once we start doing that we’re left with something so malleable that we can twist it into whatever we like. So it kind of loses it’s appeal. What good is a religious doctrine that can be shaped into just about anything you want it to be?

Also the God of the Bible is just too darn egotistical. It’s all about a God who needs to be worshiped and obeyed and gets really upset when that doesn’t happen.

Moreover, I think the real clincher for me was the eye-opener of how much sense the Bible actually makes when viewed as a doctrine written by men to keep social order and put the fear of God into the masses.

The problem is that it makes so much sense in that context that once seen from that point of view it’s pretty hard to ever imagine that it can be anything else. It just fits that scenario to a “T”. It’s the perfect brainwashing scheme. There’s no way out of it without ‘rejecting’ God. And rejecting God implies that really bad things are going to happen to the person who rejects God. The church has the people by their spiritual genitals! It’s the perfect system to keep people under the authority of the church, which was the legal and political authority in the olden days.

The Pantheist God is completely differnet. It’s not ‘person-like’ at all, it’s pure spirit and has no agenda other than to experience life though us. It just make much more sense to me with respect to what a supreme being would actually be like. This picture represent infinite wisdom, whilst the biblical picture represent extreme barbarism and lack of wisdom.

Which should I choose to be the most likely candidate for the creator of this universe?

Abra;

What I often sense through reading your posts about the conclusions you come to concerning the God of scripture is that your objections often reflect the misinterpretation of exegesis by men, rather than the spirit of what the scripture is saying. This may or may not be a true representation of what you do - it is just often how it appears.

As to the "egotistical" God you've rejected, I don't quite see it the way you do - there's a gentle mix of interpreting things literally, and allegorically, and I haven't had the difficulties with it that you have, but that does not make either one of us right or wrong. It does make me want to defend the bible when you call it "mythical" though - as I don't base my view on the truth through your "reasonableness". In the same way that I don't agree with your opinion that men have "interpreted" what Jesus said, rather than reporting it.

I think that the idea of "really bad things happening to people because they reject God" is an overstatement. Really bad things happen to people. Period. Believing in God doesn't seem to stop that from happening. The only thing not believing in God is going to bring about, is not spending eternity with Him. To some people, this is a really bad thing - and to others, it's irrelevant. The one's who see it as such a bad thing that they have to pound it down the throats of those who don't believe - are not representative of biblical believers as a whole. For the most part - I've often seen that strong biblical believers are more concerned that those who do not believe in the bible - do not do so because they have had it mis-represented to them. Sadly, this is what happens in the majority of "religions". More often than not - well meaning "believers" tend to view percieved destructive behavior in people they know, and seek to find biblical passages to support their perception, then "attack" those people with it. This is often what leads people to lose any sense of belief in te bible - because they are having it mis-represented to them. That's pretty much been what I've always objected to.

right on right on eljay.....just very well said....


As far as evolution.......I totally believe over the last million years that animals and even man have gone through evolutionary changes...but there is no way on God's Green earth that an animal turns into a human and vise versa.....