this is a question more for the christians, but everybody is welcome to share their opinions as long as they are not derogatory, for instance that what I'm talking about it's myth or a fantasy.

this is the statement:
"the devil's best job is to make people believe that he does not exist."

i prefer tom waits' quote: "there aint no devil its just god when hes drunk"

denial is the root of all evil

Miguel, I truely believe that and he is always testing us every day, every hour, every minute with various things that occur in our lives.

in the history channel they are showing a documentary about the devil and hell
and they are showing a satanic mass
it's just scary.

thats about the size of it.

lucifer is the master of deception...

what better trick than to try
to convince people he is not real...

while i dont believe the commonly held perception of hellfire and brimstone as i just dont get that out of the bible, i know that the devil is very real and will drag you down if you let him. if you believe there is no devil then you are free to do whatever you want. perfect feeding ground for a devious mischevious devil.

u got that right rambill

Why would the devil choose to make people believe he doesn't exist?

In fact, it seems, for those who believe in posession, that he's making it clear, he wants to be recognised.

I've hear this statement on several occasions, I never did understand where it came from or what it meant?

Maybe I'll learn something from this thread.

I think the quote is more, "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Which would be a neat trick, if you think about it.

Sadly (to other people), I'm not much for believing in devils. Or any other sort of deity, for that matter.

Miguel wrote:
“this is a question more for the christians, but everybody is welcome to share their opinions as long as they are not derogatory, for instance that what I'm talking about it's myth or a fantasy.
*************

To suggest that opinions that question that validity of something are “derogatory” is to refuse to look at things objectively.

I think it’s important to share objective views if we are to consider all points of view. Otherwise all you’re really suggesting is censorship. With all due respect, it was censorship that kept this religion alive for so long as it is. It wasn’t very long ago when you could quite literally be burned at the stake if you questioned the validity of the religion.

Who’s was the devil then?

Satan wants us to be too busy having fun to think he might really exist.

He wants us to not believe he is who he really is becuase he wants us to spend eternity in hell with him. The Bible tells us there is a lake of burning sulpher that satan & his demons will be cast into.

I'm still trying to
convince myself that
Mitt Romney isn't real.

Therefore he doesn't exist.

Has anyone else considered, that Satin embodies all the most horrific fears of humans? A buning lake of sulpher, fire, brimstone, physical defomity. Everything about the of Satin is something that is physically and emotionally harmful to our human form.

Does it strike anyone as odd, that an angelic being, would even know or understand what would be physically detrimental to a human?

And why and how would Satin, an angel, be experiencing and living in a realm of "physical" horror???????

LW;

Though it is certainly in Satan's best interest that people do not believe he exists - leaving him to "roam freely about",
I think that his primary goal is that people "mis-interpret" the gospel message. This is done in a number of ways. With Eve - it was appealing to her understanding of what God said -"You will not surely die". His goal was to have Eve doubt God's word. He succeeded. He appealed to her vanity. As he tried to do with Jesus - however, with Jesus, who's defense was the word - satan had no effect. Of course it is not only Satan that has this goal. A third of the angels fell from heaven - each with the same intent as Satan.

Eljay wrote:
“As he tried to do with Jesus - however, with Jesus, who's defense was the word - Satan had no effect.”

Ok, this is not intended to be in any way derogatory. It’s an honest question that anyone who is interested in Christianity should surely ask I would think. In fact, my inability to find answers to these kinds of questions is precisely I had had to give it up. After all, if I can’t find answers to questions how could I even begin to teach the religion to others?

The question is this,…

Jesus was supposed to be God and know it. After all, if he didn’t even know that he was God that throws a terrible wrench in the whole mix. The premise here is that Jesus knew that he was God, and not merely the son of God. Jesus said that he and the father are one, and that before Abraham “I am”.

So here Jesus is clearly claiming to be the God of Abraham.

So now we come to the story of Jesus being tempted by the devil. Well what sense does this make? If Jesus is God and he KNOWS it. Then he knows perfectly well that he created Satan and cast him out of his kingdom. So how could Satan then come to God and tempt God? What could he possible offer the God that had cast him aside? God (i.e. Jesus) would just look at him and laugh and say, “Anything you could possibly offer me is a joke. I created you and gave you and gave you all power that you have.”

This is seriously a problem for me. As a teacher of Christianity what am I supposed to tell a student who presents to me this obvious contradiction? I have no rational justification for this. It doesn’t make any sense to me either how the devil could tempt God in a meaningful way.

Anyone have an explanation for this? Surely Christians must have an explanation. Although, I haven’t met one who has an explanation yet and I’ve put this question to many preachers and theologians. They always just brush it off saying something like, “God works in mysterious ways”. Or “It is not important that we understand everything all that’s important is that we have faith that there is an answer”. Well, as a teacher of a religion those kinds of answer are empty. It’s like telling my students, “Look, I’m not saying this religion makes any sense, I’m just saying that you should believe it”.

So what is your explanation for this question? How could the devil possibly tempt the very God that had cast him out of Heaven? What could he possibly offer the God that created him?

Also,…

Eljay wrote:
” A third of the angels fell from heaven - each with the same intent as Satan.”

What’s up with this too? Here’s another question a student will ask. If heaven is so perfect and desirable where are so many angels unhappy with it to the point where they would rather be cast out than stay there?

Is this a continuous thing? When we go to heaven are we going to see angles rebelling against God and picketing and causing commotion just like people do on earth to their governmental leaders?

Are we going to see angels being kicked out of heaven? Are we going to feel bad about this like children feel bad when they see their parents fighting?

Doesn’t this contradict the idea that heaven is supposed to be “perfect”. How can it be perfect if an entire 33% of the angels are unhappy and would rather be cast out. That’s worse than being a human where we saw a while back that only 10% of humans are criminal. In heaven 33% of angels seem to be criminal.

What’s going on? Why is heaven such an undesirable place for angels? Why are they so unhappy there?

33% of angels are unhappy. God! That’s a LARGE percentage of angels.

These are honest questions. Surely any Christian would be concerned about these things if they care about tying to understand their religion at all. As a teacher of Christianity what do you tell a student who asks these questions?

You can’t just tell them that they are being derogatory for asking questions surely.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" -The Wizard of Oz in "The Wizard of Oz"


-Kerry O.

Abra,

I believe they are honest questions, and I myself have thought of many strange ones (at least that's the impression I have got from some folk - hey we are just human not perfect). When I read "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" at 7 years old I was determined, the Lion was like a description of God, it wasn't just a children's story and that's all. Back to your question.

There are no simple earthly answers, and that's why for me its a matter of faith. We live in this world and most people recognize at least 3 dimensions, scientists know there are more. God exists on a much higher level.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts"

"we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. World English Bible For now we see in a mirror, dimly ... we see through a glass ..." 1 Cor. 13:12

For myself, I am still learning and always will, until I am in the presence of God.


The devil knows all scripture, and he does not impress me. What I am saying here is the most intellectual human being in this whole world, throughout all time, has never figured out everything about space, time, etc,nor never will while living on this earth in our present human form. Not to say, we cannot enjoy the learning process.