I remember when you could go into a shop to buy groceries and they would speak English but now they don't and you don't really get proper service anymore. I went into my local shop the other day and I asked what sort of cakes he had because I felt a bit peckish and he actually said to me, "How do you expect me to tell you?" Apparently they can't read either and they don't have Arabic labeling on the cakes they stock.

I can't read either, due to failing eyesight, is the reason that it's a problem because I suppose most people would just go in and take what they want from a shelf and then the guy would just take their money. A chimp could do that though, is what I'm saying. Well, a machine anyway. Problem is that we no longer have much of a robotics industry in this country and it probably wouldn't understand English either, or know what a bloody donut is.

What is your English perspective on immigration?

Well I suppose sooner or later all shops will be replaced by vending machines; push a button, swipe a card and hope it delivers what you wanted. One thing I've found that the Indian and Arab shopkeepers will do that a machine and most of the "real American" owners won't if you are a little short and from the neighborhood is tell you to take it and bring what you owe back later.

I remember when all shopkeepers were white/English,and the same applied then. The difference being that they could read English,but couldn't be bothered to be helpful. It's swings and roundabouts wherever you go,but as motowndowntown said,many of our foreign friends do go the extra mile,and they are prepared to work much longer hours behind the counter.

There are good people everywhere. If you have to begin a sentence or thought with, "I'm not a racist, but..." That is in fact what you are.

^^^ Very true.

in my opinion the service industry has been going down hill for years now..regardless of the owner's heritage

He told you the truth, he did not know, probably
because he could not read labels.
Just like you.
Maybe he too cannot see so well.

You prejudge him because he is foreign to you.
If racism can refer to ALL other people but yourself,
indeed this may be it.

Personally, I think you're just grouchy :-)

Not at all! One does not have to be a racist to be aware of unpleasant conditions caused by a clash of language and culture. The fact that peoples of other countries migrate into English speaking countries and do not bother to learn English, much less try to assimilate into the the culture into which they have invaded, speaks volumes. Wrong is still wrong. And when it is compounded by a specific group, race, or ethnicity does not make it right.

Do you really need it where you went?

I know whenever I go into any gas station or grocery store the food is pretty much universal.

There aren't any local bakeries with their own specialized products sold at convenience stores.

If you want cake it's pretty much the same ones wherever you go.

Maybe it's different where you live.


I can understand that.

Simply because he probably didn't make them and they just arrive prepackaged, and he might have hundreds if not thousands of different products on his shelf. Cakes, candies, toilet paper, liquor, batteries, cell phones, lottery tickets.

That's always the tradeoff, isn't it?
Convenience vs. service.
The more of one, the less of the other.
The more specialized the store, the more knowledgeable the employee, the better service they can offer.
The more general the store, the less knowledgeable about the constantly changing products, the worse personal service they can offer.

You'll always get better service buying a ferrari than shopping at wal mart. One is going to really know their product, the other's going to be "I think it's in aisle 12, maybe."

The husband and wife who own the corner store where I live are Pakistani. They work longer and harder then anyone I know. We had a hurricane about 5 years ago. NO store was open after the storm.. no electricity. But they opened to help their neighbors as best they could, until there was nothing on the shelves.

Their English is not good.. but they try. They know everyone and are always pleasant.. truly pleasant.

Just good people

Just real good people

call me what want, but i won't spend my money in any shop that i know is run/owned by a "visitor" to my country...

I think it's a combination of socio-economics with a little racism thrown in for good measure. In America, in the urban areas, almost all the supermarket cashiers are young teenaged or not really older than 25 y.o. black women. I know...I worked in one for 2 years...& it was in a Westchester County well to do suburb.

Economically retail stores want to pay minimum wage AND no more than 18-20 hours a week. So...who will accept p/t and minimum wage? Teenagers living at home, college student who need the flex. schedules, mothers who need to be off at 2:30 to pick up their kids from school AND (at least here in NY), those on public assistance who have been assigned to the jobs by their case workers because of federal mandates that you must be "employed" in order to continue receiving benefits. The case workers want to close their cases & cashier jobs are perfect for that. These positions will never lead to actual careers & f/t employment that will get the person OFF pub. assistance. Same with McDonalds AND Walmart.

So...you have a pool of employees who are completely unmotivated to do well, since there is no opportunity for them in the "fields" they have been shunted to. There is a higher proportion of non-whites in this pool...so, to the white people who are well employed & spending 2 - 3 times the cashiers weekly salary on THEIR weekly grocery bill alone...it appears to them that all these minorities are bad workers. But...I don't see them giving up their good jobs or sending their privileged white teens to work in the same stores??? I actually heard my white manager talking on the phone to someone at the cust. serv. desk & she said "oh..no way would I let my kids work here"....WTF???

So...economics + society + racism = poor customer service in the name of low prices & high profits for the retail industry...think about that the next time you complain to the cashier that xyz on your bill is too high.

Oh... don't get me started on the proposed $15/hour min. wage thing in the news a while ago...can you see the retail industry saying "great, this is good for the economy b/c we're going to hire 2x as many people" Of course they will at: 12 hour maximum weekly shifts LOL! No employees will benefit...

ooooh pleeease,,not all ppl are from the big city,and are not used to having non whites servig us,,sounds like your doing the same thing by juding the OP

I hate cute womem that live on the Pacific coast..

I get the feeling this topic is going to require lots and lots of popcorn lol

I have the beers.

Nah, his eyesight is fine. He doesn't have a problem reading the price tags. There are two shops at the end of my road and they're both run by Pakistanis now.

I'm actually on friendly terms with the guy that owns one of them and I have no problems with him , as he speaks perfect English and was obviously born or brought up in this country. He even agreed with me that some guy he employed was hopeless and an arsehole when it came to dealing with customers.

They don't have a large range of cakes. They get about half a dozen packsof cakes in once or twice a week. It's not just that they can't read the Latin alphabet properly. It's like a comedy routine every time I go in and ask him about anything. His English is terrible. It's a local shop that serves a residential area as well, with quite a few old people that probably require a bit of asistance.

There are very few of these smaller businesses run by British people and imigrants are apparently the only ones that can stay in business now that there are supermarkets everywhere. They say it's a combination of them being prepared to work for low wages and tax breaks. I don't know if the law is still the same but what they do or did was to get the first year tax free and then keep transfering the business to relatives, so they never pay tax. They will be making a lot more than they would in Pakistan anyway. I'm Scottish and not English and there have always been imigrants here, although you rarely saw a black person when I was a kid and the older "imigrants" were people like Italians and they have actually learned to speak English and integrated into the culture. Most fish and chip shops are run by Italians here, for example but they speak English and you can ask for whatever you want.

Some people would say that imigration has gone a bit crazy here now. What makes it worse is modern technology because everywhere you go they're talking in loud voices and they have phones. I think that I can say that I'm not racist when it's only the ones that don't speak English, or are rude or stupid, that I have a problem with. Of course, "rudeness" is somewhat subjective and what counts as "manners" varies from culture to culture. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if the language barrier is so much the problem, or if they're just being ignorant bastards.

i kinda get where you're coming from on this, it's the same with any public service, it makes you wonder how people can get a job in the public service trade without speaking English to a good level.

what's worse though for me, is going into a shop where the proprietor is on the phone talking to friends or relatives in urdu/punjabi etc and then just carries on the conversation when you get to the till, i usually just walk out if they can't even be bothered to acknowledge, let alone even speak to a customer!

I think service is just declining everywhere in the West.

Went to a cafe the other day in Stockholm and the young Swedish clerk at the counter seemed upset that we had questions and were bothering her. Why didn't we just tell her what we wanted and be done with it. Well, luv, it's your bloody job to answer customer questions. If you want to type on your smartphone, quit and go be unemployed with your mates.

That said, if you open a store in a foriegn country you should be fully prepared to speak the local language and deal with local customs. Otherwise, why are you there? THere is a terrific English store in Stockholm, the owners are English and they are happy to speak English. They are also fluent in Swedish and happy to help Swedish customers in Swedish.