'Acting White' Remains a Barrier for Black Education

Blaming the issue on society is like telling someone on a rainy day not to use an umbrella, but to support efforts to eliminate weather.


In the eighties, (black) anthropologist John Ogbu with Signithia Fordham argued that black kids underperform in school partly because those who behave scholarly are teased as being "white," such that often fitting in means letting one's grades slip. And indeed, legions of nerdy black kids are familiar with black peers saying "Why are you working so hard on that school stuff? You think you're white?"

However, the documentation of this has always rankled those who prefer to document black problems as due to institutional racism rather than cultural problems, and over the past ten years, it has become popular to claim that it has been "refuted" that black kids think of school as "white" and that this lowers black scholastic performance.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/08/acting-white-remains-a-barrier-for-black

THAT ought to Pee Off some People!

as an 'educated' and 'black' person, I call hogwash,,,,

not that the 'acting white' charge doesn't happen, it CERTAINLY does,, but that is hardly or anywhere nearly as historical or common as the SOCIAL issues that occur

errors in his OWN PIECE INCLUDE:
1. Clifton Casteel did a study in Elementary School Guidance and Counseling in 1997 in which white eighth and ninth graders tended strongly to say they did homework for their parents, while black kids said they did homework for their teachers—that is, the black kids had a quiet sense that school was not for what "we" are at heart.
* Wow what a LEAP of a conclusion! neither group said they did it for themselves, but because one said teacher and one said parent it means the former thought school was not for what 'they' are? yeah,, ok



2. Roland Fryer has shown that among black teens, the better one does in school the fewer people report him or her as a friend—and to much more of an extent than among kids of other races.

**that's called being a 'nerd' and in every race, they tend to have fewer friends except other 'nerds',,,I could easily flip that study/poll on its head by claiming the better black kids did in school the less likely THEY were to associate with other black kids,,,,(people don't tend to consider those who don't associate with them as friends), and perhaps the choice they make not to associate with others leads to others not considering them friends and PERHAPS that choice is because they see other blacks as beneath them,,,,
see how easy that is?


3.After I wrote Losing the Race in 2000, I was surprised by thousands of letters, including over a hundred from black people explicitly attesting that they were teased as "white" for liking school

***** and? this is very interesting,,,out of 'thousands' over 100,,,lets do the math,, if even he only received 2000, over 100 would amount to about 5% , hardly an indicator of a leading cause for underperformance


I could go on and on but the errors in logic are too longstanding and I don't like posts that read like books


so yes, refuting that people are sometimes accused of 'acting white' would be as ridiculous as refuting that many homosexual men are accused of 'being feminine',,,,,however,, placing this subjective jusgement from other individuals on the same playing field with the effects of historical and INSTITUTIONAL trends in society,, is just as ridiculous,,,

homosexuals still tend to outpace heterosexuals professionally DESPITE the petty subjective judgments they face from others, so I would presume,, simple INDIVIDUAL cases of people not liking us do not amt to the same impact as the HISTORY and SOCIAL MAINSTREAM CULTURE

First... John McWhorter is a black liberal..

Second.. It comes as no surprise that even when a black democrat goes against the sacred 'its racism' he is criticized.

I would suggest that he is much more of an expert on the subject than anyone on this site.

But hey... He isn't toeing the line so bash away..

first, I don't really care his race

second, if I didnt know his race or political affiliation(as you pointing it out indicates you decided I didnt know), how could those be factors in my criticism?

criticizing his logic is not personal, its only reading words and coming to conclusions, I do not know him PERSONALLY to judge him


third, I would suggest he has just as much of an 'opinion' as anyone else here, and probably more 'experience' than those who are not black,,,

fourth, I don't care about toeing the line, my argument is on his logic and leaps of logic,,

disagreeing is not 'bashing'

First.. As you said in your third...probably more 'experience' than those who are not black

You obviously do care about his race, otherwise you would summarily disregard his opinion if he was not black because he wouldn't have the 'experience' in your opinion.

Second.. As with any subject.. The weight of ones background and work in a particular field carries much more in the way of expertise than someone with nothing more than their perceived notions of a subject.

You were bashing him by questioning the logic behind his work.

I am sure he spent more time looking at the subject than you and he perfectly explains YOUR position and how it is totally irrelevant and WRONG.

Your "math" has major flaws, not his. You don't know how many of the "thousands" were black. If 10% were black, that would leave 200 black letters of which 100 had been teased. That's 50%, not 5%, the point being your math is meaningless so it hardly refutes anything.

The statistical data psychological sampling rate has been studied widely and those writing in represent a large number who don't bother.

It is amazing that you think you know more than the author using your "math" as an example of what you understand.

"Then, we are informed that white kids get made fun of for being nerds, too. But once again, the people claiming that there is nothing race-specific about this issue are almost willfully playing dumb. It's one thing to be called nerd, but to be told you are disqualifying yourself from your race, with its implications that your presentation of yourself as black is fake, lends a particular sting. It is, quite simply, worse than being called a nerd. Why it is that people otherwise sitting always at the ready to remind us that in subtle but powerful ways, race matters, on this issue suddenly become color-blind?

The reason is that ironically, given that they readily designate people like me as working from bias, it is these detractors who are working from a deep-seated ideology rather than empiricism. They are viscerally dedicated to tracing black problems to structural problems in America's workings, and vigorously deep-sixing any idea that black people might also have some self-standing cultural issues to think about as intellectually mistaken, and probably immoral."

NO, as it relates to my ORIGINAL opinion, I DO NOT CARE ABOUT HIS RACE(as I obviously was not aware of what it was)

as it relates to the level of experience SOMEONE ELSE introduced into the discussion after SHAREING His race,,,, its a logical conclusion that being black himself he has more EXPERIENCE in the experiences of a black person,, than non blacks would,,,

and when we are talking EXPERIENCE, that is different from EDUCATION or STUDIES/POLLS

a man can study as much as he wants about WOMENS rights, biology, etc,, and he still wont have more EXPERIENCE with those things than someone who is a woman,,,

sigh,, no, ,IM afraid YOU are not understanding the numbers or the flaw in this authors logic

the information he gave stated that 'the better one does in school the fewer people report him or her as a friend'


and he makes a false correlation, through its mention, that these people made a choice based upon whether someone 'acted white', when no such information was included(reason for not being associated was not given, but LEAPED to as an ASSUMPTION)

race does matter, it is historically DOCUMENTED fact that race matters

and ridicule absolutely SUJBECTIVELY and ACCUMULATIVELY impacts people


HOWEVER, though stigma of 'acting' white is an issue for some black people , it is far from an overwhelming impact upon blacks as a demographic,,,

Actually, I'm fascinated by a newly-evolving theory regarding genetics:predisposition-to-violence:racism. It's pretty highfalutin stuff, but this article summarizes the theory quite nicely:

http://dana.org/Cerebrum/2012/The_Role_of_Stress_in_Brain_Development__The_Gestational_Environment%E2%80%99s_Long-Term_Effects_on_the_Brain/

It's basically studying - and finding evidence to support - that genetic programming of mind, spirit and physical being IS directly affected by the womb's condition during development. If the pregnant mother continually experiences stress - whether it be a violent spouse, violence outside her front door, the lack of food, unemployment, depression, etc. - it WILL forever effect the offspring.

A pregnant woman who is suffering from these internal and external negative stimuli may - in fact - trigger something in her child's natural development that says, "Hey!!! The world is a tough place, right now! No food, no safety, no shelter...best to concentrate on making a more physically superior creature (to ensure the odds of survival) than to work so much on that gray matter for book reading and stellar social skills to have a fantabulous job interview!"


If science CAN prove the correlation, it may be the BEST example - and BEST rationale to rid society - of institutionalized racism. By ensuring other-hued peoples remain poor(er), living in unsafe(r) sections of town, and experiencing high(er) levels of unemployment,

we may be creating our own self-fulfilling prophecy to ensure our racist stance 'blacks don't do as well in school/blacks are less employable/blacks commit more crime"

IS *right* and *correct*...simply because we - and our society - caused it to BE so.

I don't know that I agree with the 'made in the womb' correlation,, but I certainly believe the environment once we are in the world plays a large part of our self perception and personal reality of how things work,,,,

@ msharmony:

Actually, the citation I'd provided (as well as most of the researchers studying it, I believe) acknowledges that what the child is born INto continues to form, formulate, and cement what's already begun in the womb.

I'm having a hard time NOT believing it, as I would hope other would, too. Since, as a society, we've determined that children who have a healthy, nutritious breakfast and lunch perform better in school, which is why we're willing to fund school meal programs.


Though we, as a collective society, ARE really good at it, we really shouldn't pick-and-choose which "well, it's as plain as the nose on one's face" we're going to believe and which "plain as the nose on one's face" we're going to discount and discard as rubbish.


Again, I'm simply fascinated by the theory...and if proven to have validity (which it appears they're well on the way TO doing), how we'll continue to ignore The Reality, all in the name of being *right*(er).

the way I read the correlation was this

child in the womb exposed to violence is then developed to be stronger and not smarter

which would lead to a tendency,, imho,, to see that more fit children would tend to be less successful at school(Because they were 'made' to be stronger instead) and unfit children would be the more successful(Because their physical strength wasn't as significant)


this would do much to validate the stupid jock and weak nerd stereotypes, but I still don't think it pans out,,,

to me, a better study for the correlation would have to be one involving women that were ONLY abused while pregnant and left their abuser to have healthy relationships

and women who NEVER left the abuse


if the study found similar results, I would be able to understand the belief that these tendencies were 'created' in the womb,,,,

otherwise, I will always believe character perception, success/failure,,,etc,,,


is FAR MORE DIRECTLY related to the experiences one has after they are born,,,,,

I admit my bias towards the 'born that way' hypothesis in general,,,,,

Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage,the notion that a man's intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.

Racism claims that the content of a man's mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man's convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical factors beyond his control. This is the caveman's version of the doctrine of innate ideas'or of inherited knowledge which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science. Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes. It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of animals, but not between animals and men.

Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man's life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.

Racism
The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand



A genius is a genius, regardless of the number of morons who belong to the same race,and a moron is a moron, regardless of the number of geniuses who share his racial origin.

Racism,
The Virtue of Selfishness,Rand



Like every other form of collectivism, racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowledge for an automatic evaluation of men's characters that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment and, above all, a quest for an automatic self-esteem (or pseudo-self-esteem).

Racism,
The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/racism.html

@ msharmony:

Well, as you well know, I'm one who waits to gather ALL the facts before deciding what my opinion will be on matters,


so I'll wait 'til I see more of/all the evidence before deciding if I'll adopt it into my logic or dismiss it as hogwash.

However, given what I have seen with my own lying eyes from 54 years of paying attention, I'm leaning towards believing there's probably some merit to it and that it should be the final blow to institutionalized racism and its insidiousness.



In any event, a girl can hope...

Another race bait thread, recession in full effect as usual.

It is obvious and irrefutable that this is true - that this happens.

However, this doesn't say anything about the DEGREE of influence that this has on people, and this seems to me to be something that is impossible to measure and prove.

Just like many claims about institutional racism (accurate or otherwise) are impossible to measure and prove.

So the door is left wide open for everyone to arbitrarily choose to believe in whatever narrative appeals to them the most.

We're all in this together. Regardless the degree of influence of institutional racism, or cultural issues like those cited here, etc, its in our collective best interest to lift everyone up.

What makes it a race bait thread? The fact that race was mentioned? The fact that it presents certain theories about race dynamics?

I agree. some of everything happens sometimes. though I gather no link between performing well and being considered 'white'

I do believe, in fact , KNOW that people tend to subscribe to a consensus that some behaviors, or traditions, or vernaculars are 'black' and some are 'white'


whether or not those people have access to the grades of others at the end of the day enough to influence whether they choose to do well or slack off,,,would seem something of an issue for certain people that is easily addressed by just not advertising whether they are doing well or not,,,