or do they and we just need it simple and right between the eyes?

Apparently :-)
It is like fishing..

She is probably good enough to bait the hook,
cast, and reel you in before you even know you
have gone fishing.

Don't tell, it's a secret.

I have no idea what's going on most of the time...

I wouldn't say that they don't. Maybe not every girl and maybe not all the time. But how many girls do you need really?
It could be more subtle at first and maybe you'll just get a mail saying "Hi" but I think there's nothing random about to who this "hi" went. I think it means she is giving a sign that she wants you to talk to her. If not, she would not write you anything, not even "Hi".

I've been a bit of a blabbermouth here, maybe more than I intended but it seems to be working... I do get some mail now from other posters :)

So, women do make first moves or at least towards friendship kinda first moves. Once youre in friend zone, u never know, what might be next.

my lady was the first to contact me
as have most of the females i have dated <shrug>

yes it helps to talk in forums : )
give them a chance to see where you head is at
like minded people attract like minded people <shrug>
or in my case since i have been with out a brain for so long
people that think alike tend to attract the same : )

lol Soufie

I just made a bold move going fishing on this site for a movie date. Got free pass for advanced screening of 'The Song. Got a few nibbles to get to know each other, but no bites. Maybe should have tried POF instead; keep getting their pop up ads. Gonna be going "stag"tonight. I got notice over weekend & posted on Mon. That should not be so even tho short notice b/c I put it out there in black & white - nothing to figure out, simple.

Sometimes they do,you just have to be vigilant,I've had women /girls say stuff direct and it didn't even hit me right then,could be like mnts -about an hour later ,and I be like,"did she really said that,"?..not saying am slow lol,but sometimes am just amazed at how bold they can be at times,and think about this,have you ever observed every living thing like animals,insects,birds ECT,who's the aggressor more than 90% of the times??

girls don't make the first move..
because if the relationship does not work out.. that would mean they would have to blame themselves...
for picking you in the first place...
.. and we all know how much..
. women never like to take the . blame...or admit that they were wrong.... right..

Lol so true

I've known women to make a move subtly. Not all guys can pick up on it.

Well, if she pulls out her boob and licks the nipple then I am 57% sure I would pick up on it.

Can't miss it!!

for me i like a man to make the first move and to keep on making moves.im old fashioned so thats me bt i also give it up to those woman who see what they want and go for it.

If you meet a modern man, then he might expect some moves from you as a proof that you are personally interested , not just passively tagging along. If no such move ever come it might indicate you do not have same feelings for him. And that is a red flag to get too serious with you such as engagement, marriage or kids.

With passive woman there's always this little doubt- does she love me or does she simply love the attention I give. It's no friggin way the same thing, neither is it too obvious cuz of the lack of feedback.

I should have also mentioned that I don't actually mean on here...cos on-line anyone can say anything and then run away if they don't like the response or lack of response....I actually mean when you are out and about...I guess I may just have to grow old disgracefully and pretend to be that peacock again?

I was in the supper market last wk and had a cart of food headed toward the ck out ... well this really nice cute guy was nxt to me as i am trying to figure which line had less in it so i saw one about the time he saw it also so we go a running along side each other playing like ... and he said i did not like that other ck out person as I let him go in front of me becouse he only had a couple of things in his hand ... and i said something like joking about the other ck out person right... he said no ... lol now i tried my hardest to look for a ring but could not see then i heard wife in the conversation he was having with this other ck out girl so I didn't act on my intention but might have ...if I didn't hear wife ... another store all guys in line I am there going wow am i going to be here a long time for 1 item so i am cking them all out to see if i like any of them lol and not really so i said hey do you guys mind if i just get this one thing they all said that was fine ... and again if i saw someone I thought would be interesting i would have waited ... far and few between i have with attractions to men ... but if i felt they where single i would say something ...

Im definitely subtle...

Oh and cryptic, apparently...