Oh I totally believe in miracles. I've experienced a couple myself. I also believe in "God" but I believe it is omnipresent in all things.

WOW Miles, I'm glad to hear you survived that ordeal.

Msharmony brought up physical discipline being religious doctrine, which makes me think she thinks it's ok because the bible/god says so.

That's fine JB good place to post my mental illness in.

One last things I want to post to my friends who believe.

I had another miracle happen to me this easter at 9 am in the morning.

I woke up throwing up blood and called 911. being 35 miles from a trauma center took quite a while to get me to the hospital. My landlord said my apartment looked like a slaughter house. They cleaned it up for me which I am very grateful they did.

After the ambulance got to me everyone thought I was a gonner.
On the way to the Mercy Hospital in Roseburg Or. I could hear them talk that I was in critical condition and they said they had a team and a operating room waiting for me.. as we Pulled into the Hospital They had not been able to give me fluids because my viens had collapse from the time they picked me up. As we pulled in the Blood pressure cup stopped working and not sure what else. I looked up at the cealing of the ambulance and the ambulance got a little brighter and felt total peace I smiled and then said " Yahshua Help us" immidetely the blood pressure cup went to full pressure and a reading was shown. They did not know what to say as I had spoke of my faith on the ride. In the Emergency room they started giving me blood as no Stomach/throat Dr. was on call as 2 people earlier had been sent to Eugene. As soon as they said this a new Dr. in scrubs who had just got married to another Dr from Roseburg came in who I was told was one of the best who came their from San Franscico. After I had been given anough blood they went to scope me. they had put me out. what they did not know was my stomach was full of blood and I started wiggling and supping clots of blood.

So more blood on ICU was ordered for the next couple of days and they did the procedure and I had kissing ulcers at the bottom of my throat and showed me a picture of it and the vien that looked like about the size of a # 2 pencil from behind the ulcer was the culprit. My dr said it had to of clotted as we pulled into the Hosp. stopping the bleeding.. They siered it and I am fine.

One funny thing is I kept having a lot of people Drs. nurses etc. coming and just taking a look at me. The RN who I talked a lot with and helped me a lot also as we talked about issues she was having with her children that was straining her marriage. She told me the reason so many people were looking in at me was I was so white I was blending into the sheets.. no one had ever seen anyone alive that looked like I did. She said I lost 2 1/4 liters of blood I should of had a Heart attach losing that much blood yet they could not find any damage to my heart. She said I lost between 40 and 45% of my blood.

She told me when I left I should come back and see her. So I did.
When I saw her I was dumbfounded. This was not who I saw so much of the time in my room.. Who I thought I was talking with was a woman about 6 foot tall dark complected with a long viel on over her head. she was a blond about 5 ft. tall. I believe an Angel I was seeing but talking with her. I do not know what to say. I must be mentally ill. Friends I love all of you and Keep your faith no matter how many tell u r ill.. Thank you Yahshua and May Yahweh Bless his people

ur thinking incorrectly, the bible REINFORCES the values I Have, it isnt the birthplace for everything i believe,, before I read the bible , I OBSERVED the effects of spanking in my own culture of people, and its positive results,, compared to the results I observed from those who had more passive discipline like 'time outs' and 'priviliges' taken from them

my observation, was reinforced by the bible passage ,that sparing the rod (in most cases I OBSERVED PERSONALLY) lead to spoiling the child....


and my conclusion was not about being AFRAID,,, FEAR leads often to rebellion, perhaps that is why spanking seems to effect different cultures of people differently


the conclusion was that my parents could be TRUSTED to do what they said they would do,, and that REAL choices have REAL consequences, and REAL SERIOUS offenses have REAL SERIOUS consequences

I learned about CHOICES, how life doesnt revolve around what I feel or want to do every second , that real harm can occur from my momentary desires , I learned my parents were honest and balanced

equally willing to lay down the law FOR ME , as they were WITH ME,,,,noone in this world has or would have sacrificed so much and worked so hard to give us the life we had, or went to bat for us as often as they did when we were down and out,, BUT PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW LOVE US AND CAN BE TRUSTED


,,but as I Said, I Was raised in a culture where it was about the UNIT and not just me,,,,,so I saw the balance and the reason behind it,,,

spanking isnt for everyone anymore than chocolate is,, but it isnt proof that either is blatantly 'wrong'

parents figure out the balance that works in THEIR HOMES

ur thinking incorrectly, the bible REINFORCES the values I Have, it isnt the birthplace for everything i believe,, before I read the bible , I OBSERVED the effects of spanking in my own culture of people, and its positive results,, compared to the results I observed from those who had more passive discipline like 'time outs' and 'priviliges' taken from them

my observation, was reinforced by the bible passage ,that sparing the rod (in most cases I OBSERVED PERSONALLY) lead to spoiling the child....


and my conclusion was not about being AFRAID,,, FEAR leads often to rebellion, perhaps that is why spanking seems to effect different cultures of people differently


the conclusion was that my parents could be TRUSTED to do what they said they would do,, and that REAL choices have REAL consequences, and REAL SERIOUS offenses have REAL SERIOUS consequences

I learned about CHOICES, how life doesnt revolve around what I feel or want to do every second , that real harm can occur from my momentary desires , I learned my parents were honest and balanced

equally willing to lay down the law FOR ME , as they were WITH ME,,,,noone in this world has or would have sacrificed so much and worked so hard to give us the life we had, or went to bat for us as often as they did when we were down and out,, BUT PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW LOVE US AND CAN BE TRUSTED


,,but as I Said, I Was raised in a culture where it was about the UNIT and not just me,,,,,so I saw the balance and the reason behind it,,,

spanking isnt for everyone anymore than chocolate is,, but it isnt proof that either is blatantly 'wrong'

parents figure out the balance that works in THEIR HOMES

I've talked to friends who were raised in households where they were spanked/hit as children. All of them said it was to instill fear as a way of making them do what the parents thought was right. And none of them do this to their children, which I am happy to hear.

and I have talked to friends/family/elders who were spanked as children,, all of them said it taught consequences and consistency and trust that parents would follow through on their word

and all of them also have used spanking, which I am happy to hear works for their families too


I really am glad you are happy

so am I and millions of others spanked as children,,,,,,

Of course parents who spank/hit their children are going to say it's to teach consequences. They're not going to say they're trying to instill fear in their children.

Remember the article does not say anything against religion, it pin-points fundamentalism, which most theology scholars will tell you crosses the line from religion into a cult.

which theology scholars? and what do they define as 'fundamentalism'?

is that something different than organized or orthodox?

Fundamentalists generally take their holy writings literally

which part would a christian fundamentalist take literally?

'an eye for an eye' or

'turn the other cheek'?



'the wages of sin are death'

or
'let he without sin cast the first stone'.....?

How about disobedient children should be stoned; thou shalt not suffer a witch to live; a man who lieth with another man as a woman should be put to death. etc