hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Are you judging, thinking, or humming?

the last one i hardly think it hurts too much

It is not human nature to lie.
Look at small children and "challenged" people...

Why waste time trying to discover 'the truth' when you can so easily create it?
(for those that request anonymity as they are not authorized to speak on the record as to matters of truth...)
All truths are lies and that's the truth. Make up your own truths and you'll soon have converts.

Oh, but I have children, and the youngest is 4. If they think that they will get into trouble for something the did...then yes they will lie. It's not malicious, or intended to hurt....but they will "lie" or "omit" to get out of trouble. Our first instinct as humans is "self-preservation".

You don't remember that time when everything was a wonder to them?
When they wanted to share everything with you and wanted you to do everything with them? When they ran around naked without a care in the world? (this is where you infer I'm secretly a nudist)

That was before they learned to talk silly...

I am in agreement with Pan here. Not so much with how he's arguing the point, but rather with the point itself. Lying is not human nature. It cannot be. One cannot lie on an accident. To lie is to deliberately misrepresent one's own thought/belief. Lying works upon a background of honesty.

I would further argue that in order to learn language, one must trust that the teacher's testimony is truthful. One must think/believe that that is called "a tree".

nothing, since I grew up and realized I had the option to say nothing at all,, or say things like "Its personal',, 'Id rather not talk about it', or 'next question?'....lol

If the cops come looking for you at my house, I'm gonna make a judgement call and probrably lie for you msharmony... lol

just be careful of that cop ex boyfriend, he was a bit overly aggressive,,,,,
oh wait!

is this your subtle way of finally asking me over?......lol

I can't host and you'll have to be "discreet". And bring some weed please...

oooh,, and the door slams in her face,,,,,

still love ya

What are you talking about??? Door's wide open.

I've lied, there are some bad people out there who don't need to know the "truth".

I'm proud of what I've done...

I think that once one understands how folk interact and the subsequent effects/affects it can have upon ourselves and/or our loved ones, especially in the continental US, it becomes clear that always being honest can be a vice rather than a virtue.

Keep in mind that I do not believe in any form of cosmic retribution.

We shun truthfulness in most of it's forms in reality but teach it as the right thing to do.

Examples: Southern hospitality is not really hospitable in the sense that they are going to be nice as a sunny day to your face but you will be the scourge of the earth once you leave. I use this example because it covers both sexes and is considered the "way it is and should be". They flat out give you the impression of welcome like you are family but will complain and tell others every slight flaw they found in you, starting with the fact you accepted their help in the first place.

Another example: You can take the idea of not hurting others feelings to almost any level to be untruthful. You don't want to cause a hardship so you don't tell your lover you haven't worked for 6 months...You cheated but don't want to hurt your lover so you don't tell them....Your sister is committing child abuse on a regular basis but you don't want to case more trouble so you don't tell her or the authorities what is really going on...

The examples here are endless.

By action we teach lying as acceptable but we teach it in concept as wrong.

It is the easy road in the initial but the truth usually does come out. Proving all parties to be liars.

Now, I am not sure of the vice of which you spoke but being shunned or feared for your honesty is very common especially among the people with a weaker constitution.

*I am not speaking of those who are rude and claim it as honesty either. Those who are mean and angry and claim it is truth are not the example of an honest person. They are intentionally being harmful to others and getting by with it in the false name of truth and honesty. Lots of examples even here in these forums. These are people who have issues and push others around because of them in the name of truth.* Whole nuther thread for that discussion.

^^^^^^^

May I take credit for that post?