Topic: help with gun control
JustDukkyMkII's photo
Thu 12/27/12 01:32 AM
Edited by JustDukkyMkII on Thu 12/27/12 01:34 AM
It seems that in Britain, now that the citizens' guns are gone, it's time to look at banning other implements of death:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

I quess in the near future, if a Brit wants to carve the Christmas bird, he's gonna have to use a butter-knife...assuming those aren't banned too.

It'll be interesting to see what they'll ban once they've confiscated all the cutlery....Cricket bats maybe?...scratch awls?...screwdrivers?...The possibilities are endless.

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 12/27/12 01:33 AM

Shortly after the Constitution was sent to the people for ratification, anti-federalists warned that the Constitution would make the federal government too strong in relation to the people. Not so, replied the Federalists. Tench Coxe — an ally of James Madison and Alexander Hamilton who would later serve in the Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Madison administrations — explained:

"The power of the sword, say the minority..., is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people."

The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

no photo
Thu 12/27/12 07:03 AM
The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.
It seems telling other people what they have a need for is quite common.

no photo
Thu 12/27/12 07:13 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 12/27/12 07:14 AM


Well WTF do you expect? Not one of you pro-gunners offers up a solution... All we hear is "We need to protect ourselves" or "that will never work"
How do you solve any problem? First understanding why it happened.

For things such as this, that is not easy, it takes understanding a person who by normal standards is not understandable. Most of us would exclaim that we cannot understand such behavior. So asking what it takes to understand such behavior is the first step.

That first step has not happened, you have to engage in problem solving, that is not happening here. Right here what we have is political sound bytes being tossed around and nothing more.

It is hard to understand what caused such behavior, its much easier and politically advantageous to go after guns.



slaphead

It was suggested that more gun handling education is needed... I think the individuals knew EXACTLY how to use their weapons... So yea, let's keep talking and trying to figure out what was going on in the killers head at the time... case by case, we should have it figured out in... ummm ermmm NEVER! noway

Ok so... Registered, legal, responsible gun owner don't want to hand in their weapons? I see No prob if the weapon is handled right and out of reach of anyone else. So why are these responsible gun owners not taking a solid stand against illegal acquisition of firearms? "They" above everyone else should be fighting hard to keep em out of the wrong hands.

Your weapons are falling into the wrong hands, what you gonna do about it Bushido?
Almost unintelligible and you did nothing to address what I said.

BTW, none of my guns have been stolen, none of them has ever been used to murder anyone. So my track record is perfect, so speak for yourself, or point to specific incidents if you want out whatever you want to, but don't make **** up.

I will AGAIN ask you a question! Would a gun trigger lock have prevented YOU from doing this if you had your mind set? Place yourself in the shooters position and ask if the law in question would stop you . . .

If yes, then your an not as devious as the people who plan these shooting out, if no then why would we consider this simplistic solution to be an effective strategy to stop this complex problem?

no photo
Thu 12/27/12 10:37 AM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 12/27/12 10:41 AM
OVERVIEW
Title XI of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (the Crime Control Act) took effect on September 13, 1994. Subtitle A banned the manufacture, transfer, and possession of designated semiautomatic assault weapons. It also banned “large-capacity” magazines, which were defined as ammunition feeding devices designed to hold more than 10 rounds. Finally, it required a study of the effects of these bans, with particular emphasis on violent and drug trafficking crime, to be conducted within 30 months following the effective date of the bans. To satisfy the study requirement, the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) awarded a grant to The Urban Institute for an impact evaluation of Subtitle A. This report contains the study findings. In defining assault weapons, Subtitle A banned 8 named categories of rifles and handguns. It also banned exact copies of the named guns, revolving cylinder shotguns, and guns with detachable magazines that were manufactured with certain features such as flash suppressors and folding rifle stocks. The ban specifically exempted grandfathered assault weapons and magazines that had been manufactured before the ban took effect. Implicitly, the ban exempts all other guns; several of these, which we treated as legal substitutes, closely resemble the banned guns but are not classified as exact copies. Among other characteristics, ban proponents cited the capacity of these weapons, most of which had been originally designed for military use, to fire many bullets rapidly. While this capacity had been demonstrated in several highly publicized mass murders in the decade before 1994, ban supporters argued that it was largely irrelevant for hunting, competitive shooting, and self-defense. Therefore, it was argued, the ban could prevent violent crimes with only a small burden on law-abiding gun owners. Some of our own analyses added evidence that assault weapons are disproportionately involved in murders with multiple victims, multiple wounds per victim, and police officers as victims. To reduce levels of these crimes, the law must increase the scarcity of the banned weapons. Scarcity would be reflected in higher prices not only in the primary markets where licensed dealers create records of sales to legally eligible purchasers, but also in secondary markets that lack such records. Although most secondarymarket transfers are legal, minors, convicted felons, and other ineligible purchasers may purchase guns in them (usually at highly inflated prices) without creating records. In theory, higher prices in secondary markets would discourage criminal use of assault weapons, thereby reducing levels of the violent crimes in which assault weapons are disproportionately used. For these reasons, our analysis considered potential ban effects on gun markets, on assault weapon use in crime, and on lethal consequences of assault weapon use. However, the statutory schedule for this study constrained our findings to short-run effects, which are not necessarily a reliable guide to long-term effects. The timing also limited the power of our statistical analyses to detect worthwhile ban effects that may have occurred. Most fundamentally, because the banned guns and magazines were never used in more than a fraction of all gun murders, even the maximum theoretically achievable preventive effect of the ban on gun murders is almost certainly too small to detect statistically with only one year of post-ban crime data. With these cautions in mind, our analysis suggests that the primary-market prices of the banned guns and magazines rose by upwards of 50 percent during 1993 and 1994, while the ban was being debated, as gun distributors, dealers, and collectors speculated that the banned weapons would become expensive collectors’ items. However, production of the banned guns also surged, so that more than an extra year’s normal supply of assault weapons and legal substitutes was manufactured during 1994. After the ban took effect, primary-market prices of the banned guns and most large-capacity magazines fell to nearly pre-ban levels and remained there at 2 least through mid-1996, reflecting both the oversupply of grandfathered guns and the variety of legal substitutes that emerged around the time of the ban. Even though the expected quick profits failed to materialize, we found no strong evidence to date that licensed dealers have increased “off the books” sales of assault weapons in secondary markets and concealed them with false stolen gun reports. Stolen gun reports for assault weapons did increase slightly after the ban took effect, but by less than reported thefts of unbanned large-capacity semiautomatic handguns, which began rising well before the ban. The lack of an increase in stolen gun reports suggests that so far, the large stock of grandfathered assault weapons has remained largely in dealers’ and collectors’ inventories instead of leaking into the secondary markets through which criminals tend to obtain guns. In turn, this speculative stockpiling of assault weapons by lawabiding dealers and owners apparently reduced the flow of assault weapons to criminals, at least temporarily. Between 1994 and 1995, the criminal use of assault weapons, as measured by law enforcement agency requests for BATF traces of guns associated with crimes, fell by 20 percent, compared to an 11 percent decrease for all guns. BATF trace requests are an imperfect measure because they reflect only a small percentage of guns used in crime. However, we found similar trends in data on all guns recovered in crime in two cities. We also found similar decreases in trace requests concerning guns associated with violent and drug crimes. At best, the assault weapons ban can have only a limited effect on total gun murders, because the banned weapons and magazines were never involved in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders. Our best estimate is that the ban contributed to a 6.7 percent decrease in total gun murders between 1994 and 1995, beyond what would have been expected in view of ongoing crime, demographic, and economic trends. However, with only one year of post-ban data, we cannot rule out the possibility that this decrease reflects chance year-to-year variation rather than a true effect of the ban. Nor can we rule out effects of other features of the 1994 Crime Act or a host of state and local initiatives that took place simultaneously. Further, any short-run preventive effect observable at this time may ebb in the near future as the stock of grandfathered assault weapons and legal substitute guns leaks to secondary markets, then increase as the stock of large-capacity magazines gradually dwindles. We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests. The following pages explain these findings in more detail, and recommend future research to update and
refine our results at this early post-ban stage.

This is the best, most professional study that the anti gun crowd use to justify the ban, the study that claims a 6.7% decrease in gun crime with "assault" weapons at the time of the original ban.

I have to give them credit for being objective, and clearly stating the weakness of the study. I provided the entire overview so that no one can say I cherry picked it.

All they really know is that incidents decreased, and they explain why they have little confidence in their own studies findings, while being clear that it was not statistically significant. BTW, overall violent crime has decreased by ~17% in the last decade all the while gun control laws have become less strict.

What the bold parts should tell you, is that this study was unable to justify the AWB and its the study that best justifies the ban . . .

Sojourning_Soul's photo
Thu 12/27/12 12:26 PM

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2012/12/gallop_record_n.php

no photo
Thu 12/27/12 02:12 PM
Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 12/27/12 02:13 PM
A real hero who actually did something to try to stop a heinous crime.

Mark Allen Wilson
An American Hero
1953 – 2005

Texas House Resolution No. 740

R E S O L U T I O N

WHEREAS, The tragic death of Mark Alan Wilson of Tyler on
February 24, 2005, at the age of 52, has brought a profound loss to
his many friends and loved ones; and
WHEREAS, With instinctive courage and selfless resolve, this
valorous Texan confronted a gunman on the steps of the Smith County
Courthouse; reacting to the kind of inhuman crisis that compels
ordinary men to seek cover or flee, Mark Wilson proved to be an
extraordinary man; and
WHEREAS, Mr. Wilson confronted a lethal threat in order to
protect the people of his community, and in his valiant attempt to
save the lives of others, he risked his own safety; and
WHEREAS, The magnitude of the sacrifice that ended his life
all too prematurely is in keeping with the character that was
evident to all who knew him; an active member of the Tyler
community, he used his time on earth to the fullest; and
WHEREAS, Born on January 20, 1953, in Dallas, Mr. Wilson
graduated from MacArthur High School in 1971 and went on to serve
his country with distinction in the U.S. Navy; after his discharge
from the military, this avid sportsman worked as a racquetball
instructor and embraced his entrepreneurial spirit, opening
Tyler’s On Target Shooting Range in 1997; and
WHEREAS, A dedicated volunteer, he committed his talents to
help raise money for nonprofit organizations and lent his time to
Heart of Tyler/Main Street projects, including the Texas Blues
Festival and Festival on the Square; and
WHEREAS, Mark Wilson was a true hero, and his example reminds
us that the very best elements of human nature can emerge in the
midst of the chaos and violence that threaten our society; though
this brave man will be missed, his legacy will continue to inspire
all who are privileged to know of him; now, therefore, be it
RESOLVED, That the House of Representatives of the 79th Texas
Legislature hereby pay special tribute to the life of Mark Alan
Wilson of Tyler and extend deepest sympathy to the members of his
family: to his parents, Alex and Lynn Stewart; to his sisters,
Melody and Holly Wilson; to his nieces, Katie and Kristen DeFazio;
and to his other relatives and many friends; and, be it further
RESOLVED, That an official copy of this resolution be
prepared for his family and that when the Texas House of
Representatives adjourns this day, it do so in memory of Mark Alan
Wilson.

Berman

______________________________
Speaker of the House

I certify that H.R. No. 740 was unanimously adopted
by arising vote of the House on March 31, 2005.

______________________________
Chief Clerk of the House
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlo/79R/billtext/HR00740F.HTM


http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/tacoma_tyler.htm

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:07 AM
Edited by JOHNN111 on Fri 12/28/12 07:37 AM



Well WTF do you expect? Not one of you pro-gunners offers up a solution... All we hear is "We need to protect ourselves" or "that will never work"
How do you solve any problem? First understanding why it happened.

For things such as this, that is not easy, it takes understanding a person who by normal standards is not understandable. Most of us would exclaim that we cannot understand such behavior. So asking what it takes to understand such behavior is the first step.

That first step has not happened, you have to engage in problem solving, that is not happening here. Right here what we have is political sound bytes being tossed around and nothing more.

It is hard to understand what caused such behavior, its much easier and politically advantageous to go after guns.



slaphead

It was suggested that more gun handling education is needed... I think the individuals knew EXACTLY how to use their weapons... So yea, let's keep talking and trying to figure out what was going on in the killers head at the time... case by case, we should have it figured out in... ummm ermmm NEVER! noway

Ok so... Registered, legal, responsible gun owner don't want to hand in their weapons? I see No prob if the weapon is handled right and out of reach of anyone else. So why are these responsible gun owners not taking a solid stand against illegal acquisition of firearms? "They" above everyone else should be fighting hard to keep em out of the wrong hands.

Your weapons are falling into the wrong hands, what you gonna do about it Bushido?
Almost unintelligible and you did nothing to address what I said.

BTW, none of my guns have been stolen, none of them has ever been used to murder anyone. So my track record is perfect, so speak for yourself, or point to specific incidents if you want out whatever you want to, but don't make **** up.

I will AGAIN ask you a question! Would a gun trigger lock have prevented YOU from doing this if you had your mind set? Place yourself in the shooters position and ask if the law in question would stop you . . .

If yes, then your an not as devious as the people who plan these shooting out, if no then why would we consider this simplistic solution to be an effective strategy to stop this complex problem?



Horsechit!... You know exactly what I'm talking about, in reference to "your guns", I didn't mean yours in particular, I meant gun owners weapons are ending up in the wrong hands... plz don't act like an idiot, you're clearly not. Murking up the waters in serious discussions is beneath you Sir.

So back to the topic, you claim it's not feasible because of tampering & hacking? Let me put your worries to rest, let's assume they are completely tamper proof maybe? laugh


here's one such type:
TriggerSmart
The Irish company TriggerSmart claims to have achieved a working prototype of a personalized gun in the summer of 2012 that works using radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology.[9] TriggerSmart co-owner Robert McNamara said in December 2012 that he has spoken with "household name" American gun makers about licensing his product, but that none wanted to be first to employ the technology. "They're concerned about the liability aspect. When you put it in one gun you'll have to put it in every gun," he said.[10]
The smart gun is supposed to:
Reduce the likelihood of unintentional injuries to children
Preventing teenage suicides and homicides.
Limit the violent acts committed by criminals using stolen guns.
Protect law enforcement officers from criminals grabbing their firearms during a struggle.


Here are some fun world facts:

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000, age adjusted) for Selected Countries in one year between 1990 and 1995 (Krug, Powell and Dahlberg, 1998)



Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age

Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000





I'm sure you'll agree... Much room for improvement... But again, you're completely without suggestions... Murk it up buddy!


EDIT*

I will AGAIN ask you a question! Would a gun trigger lock have prevented YOU from doing this if you had your mind set? Place yourself in the shooters position and ask if the law in question would stop you . . .


Since Most of your senseless murders are by lowlife thugs... It's probably easier for them to get some other unlocked weapon instead of trying to jimmyrig the "chip" trigger lock. Thinking like a thug, I'd find another gun if I chose this kind of life.

Increasing the price of new weapons, automatically increases the cost of a stolen or used weapon, Which makes it much harder for the dumbazzez to afford... Organized criminal elements have the resources to afford them but are much less likely to commit home invasions or random muggings. Yes/ No?

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:36 AM
Let me put your worries to rest, let's assume they are completely tamper proof maybe?
Why would we assume that when it has not been true of any other technology?

I am not against such tech, mandating it is a mistake.


no photo
Fri 12/28/12 07:39 AM

Let me put your worries to rest, let's assume they are completely tamper proof maybe?
Why would we assume that when it has not been true of any other technology?

I am not against such tech, mandating it is a mistake.




laugh drinker Mandating new weapon safeguards IS NOT a mistake

I'm still waiting on YOUR suggestions!

no photo
Fri 12/28/12 08:50 AM


Let me put your worries to rest, let's assume they are completely tamper proof maybe?
Why would we assume that when it has not been true of any other technology?

I am not against such tech, mandating it is a mistake.




laugh drinker Mandating new weapon safeguards IS NOT a mistake

I'm still waiting on YOUR suggestions!
You did not answer my question, and we are still evaluating your suggestions for merit.

One of the problems with your suggestion is that it would literally make guns unavailable for the poor.

Another is that hacked versions are sure to be developed, and based on our experience with other such devices this would end up being rather inexpensive to do, if not free.

Another issue is that adding complexity to the device would cause some of them to just fail to operate when they should which would lead to a loss of life for officers and law abiding citizens trying to defend themselves.

Another issue is that Millions of firearms already exist that wouldn't have these features and their exists no methods which would not violate other rights to deal with these weapons.

Basically your idea would have little impact on the problem, would cost TONS of money, and would have deadly consequences for a % of the population potentially as great if not greater than the % we are trying to protect.


JustDukkyMkII's photo
Sat 12/29/12 11:14 PM
The LAPD weapon buyback looks like it works...They are even taking clubs off the streets to keep them out of the hands of unstable cavemen.

Of course, for PR purposes, they are calling them "rocket launchers" to make them sound more high tech and dangerous:

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/rocket-launchers-at-la-gun-buyback-give-me-a-break/29529/

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 12/30/12 08:31 AM




Well WTF do you expect? Not one of you pro-gunners offers up a solution... All we hear is "We need to protect ourselves" or "that will never work"
How do you solve any problem? First understanding why it happened.

For things such as this, that is not easy, it takes understanding a person who by normal standards is not understandable. Most of us would exclaim that we cannot understand such behavior. So asking what it takes to understand such behavior is the first step.

That first step has not happened, you have to engage in problem solving, that is not happening here. Right here what we have is political sound bytes being tossed around and nothing more.

It is hard to understand what caused such behavior, its much easier and politically advantageous to go after guns.



slaphead

It was suggested that more gun handling education is needed... I think the individuals knew EXACTLY how to use their weapons... So yea, let's keep talking and trying to figure out what was going on in the killers head at the time... case by case, we should have it figured out in... ummm ermmm NEVER! noway

Ok so... Registered, legal, responsible gun owner don't want to hand in their weapons? I see No prob if the weapon is handled right and out of reach of anyone else. So why are these responsible gun owners not taking a solid stand against illegal acquisition of firearms? "They" above everyone else should be fighting hard to keep em out of the wrong hands.

Your weapons are falling into the wrong hands, what you gonna do about it Bushido?
Almost unintelligible and you did nothing to address what I said.

BTW, none of my guns have been stolen, none of them has ever been used to murder anyone. So my track record is perfect, so speak for yourself, or point to specific incidents if you want out whatever you want to, but don't make **** up.

I will AGAIN ask you a question! Would a gun trigger lock have prevented YOU from doing this if you had your mind set? Place yourself in the shooters position and ask if the law in question would stop you . . .

If yes, then your an not as devious as the people who plan these shooting out, if no then why would we consider this simplistic solution to be an effective strategy to stop this complex problem?



Horsechit!... You know exactly what I'm talking about, in reference to "your guns", I didn't mean yours in particular, I meant gun owners weapons are ending up in the wrong hands... plz don't act like an idiot, you're clearly not. Murking up the waters in serious discussions is beneath you Sir.

So back to the topic, you claim it's not feasible because of tampering & hacking? Let me put your worries to rest, let's assume they are completely tamper proof maybe? laugh


here's one such type:
TriggerSmart
The Irish company TriggerSmart claims to have achieved a working prototype of a personalized gun in the summer of 2012 that works using radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology.[9] TriggerSmart co-owner Robert McNamara said in December 2012 that he has spoken with "household name" American gun makers about licensing his product, but that none wanted to be first to employ the technology. "They're concerned about the liability aspect. When you put it in one gun you'll have to put it in every gun," he said.[10]
The smart gun is supposed to:
Reduce the likelihood of unintentional injuries to children
Preventing teenage suicides and homicides.
Limit the violent acts committed by criminals using stolen guns.
Protect law enforcement officers from criminals grabbing their firearms during a struggle.


Here are some fun world facts:

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000, age adjusted) for Selected Countries in one year between 1990 and 1995 (Krug, Powell and Dahlberg, 1998)



Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age

Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000





I'm sure you'll agree... Much room for improvement... But again, you're completely without suggestions... Murk it up buddy!


EDIT*

I will AGAIN ask you a question! Would a gun trigger lock have prevented YOU from doing this if you had your mind set? Place yourself in the shooters position and ask if the law in question would stop you . . .


Since Most of your senseless murders are by lowlife thugs... It's probably easier for them to get some other unlocked weapon instead of trying to jimmyrig the "chip" trigger lock. Thinking like a thug, I'd find another gun if I chose this kind of life.

Increasing the price of new weapons, automatically increases the cost of a stolen or used weapon, Which makes it much harder for the dumbazzez to afford... Organized criminal elements have the resources to afford them but are much less likely to commit home invasions or random muggings. Yes/ No?


I would like to point out that gun ownership in Switzerland is a wide spread tradition, and they have more gun owners per capita than the U.S. I would also like to point out that Mexico has strict guns laws, and one of the highest murder rates.

These figures are unfortunately null and void as there are obviously many more differences not taken into account. Perhaps, in light of the two points i mentioned earlier, we should look at other avenues to address the actual problem instead of trying to mask its symptoms.

Also, driving up prices on firearms/ammunition, makes them less common, but more valuable. Unfortunately in this society that means its worth a greater risk stealing them/selling them illegally hence growing a black market. There just are no simple answers when trying to control a population in this manner. every action has an equal and opposing reaction.

Concerning the O.P. i commend you for attempting to find ways to prevent further trageties. However, as I mentioned earlier, the U.S. has different moving parts (culture/economics/healthcare, etc) than other countries. So on the gun control debate one country cannot be compared to the other. About the only thing we can do is look at our own. I seem to remember the Bill Clinton ban on assault weapons in the 90's. I think we will find that right smack-dab in the middle of the ban the columbine shooting occurred. Even MSNBC admitted that these bans had no effect on shooting sprees (which says a lot). Washington D.C. had very similar rules to what you suggested, all guns had to be dismantled, and kept under lock and key when not in use. Ammunition had to be kept under separate lock and key. D.C. still remained one of the highest sources of gun violence. The ban was lifted a few years ago, which i also believe had no real impact on gun violence.

Again, i truely believe that gun control in response to gun violence is a scapegoat. The true problem lies in the wielder of the tool. This is where we need to begin.

msharmony's photo
Sun 12/30/12 11:48 AM

It seems that in Britain, now that the citizens' guns are gone, it's time to look at banning other implements of death:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

I quess in the near future, if a Brit wants to carve the Christmas bird, he's gonna have to use a butter-knife...assuming those aren't banned too.

It'll be interesting to see what they'll ban once they've confiscated all the cutlery....Cricket bats maybe?...scratch awls?...screwdrivers?...The possibilities are endless.


and the government response is that the laws already in place are sufficient

regarding only 'weapons'

Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.


the cutlery sold at the department store is not DESIGNED to cause injury,, I think brits and their steaks are safe,,,,,,lol

willing2's photo
Sun 12/30/12 03:09 PM
Edited by willing2 on Sun 12/30/12 03:10 PM









JustDukkyMkII's photo
Wed 01/02/13 07:31 PM
Now I've seen EVERYTHING!!...I couldn't believe my eyes!

Is it possible the second amendment might be gaining a VERY unlikely ally?...Nah...Too much to hope for, but at least he's on the right trail now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpinCRaAQOk&feature=player_embedded

Conrad_73's photo
Sat 01/05/13 02:32 AM



the laws arent there to stop a behavior, they are there to set the boundaries about what behavior will be tolerated/accepted and what behavior will have legal consequence (when caught)


Since owning property isn't a behaviour, you will agree that it is reasonable to own and hold whatever property one enjoys or feels is necessary to own, so long as that person causes no intentional or grossly negligent harm to others. You agree then that it is morally wrong to deny a reasonable man his right to own military grade arms. It stands to reason then, that any legislation prohibiting or curtailing that right is in itself a punishable crime.


thats assuming alot

alcohol has a use that is potentially harmful, not to just its drinker but to bystanders if the drinker decides to partake in certan behaviors

so, there are law against selling alcohol to minors and laws against OVERSELLING in a bar to a patron that has become debillitated in their reaoning

similarly, a gun has a use that is EXCLSIVELY Harmful(with the exception of 'target' practice) especially if the owner ever decides to use it around others

indeed, ones rights ends where another begins,,,

and one 'inalienable' right is the right to life

if someones 'unreasonable' action imposes upon that, its a problem

I would believe a weapon designed to be able to take out a militia should be used amongst TRAINED militia men and women, not paranoid, unreasonable, impulsive, or unstable citizens,,,

items have uses, and 'reasonable' is whats at issue

I dont know what 'reasonable' man would not be grossly negligent in the use of certain MASSLY destructive wwapons,,,
yep,the Framers of the Constitution definitely had Target-Practice in mind when they wrote the 2nd Amendment!pitchfork

no photo
Sat 01/05/13 05:58 AM

i was thinking that all gun stores sell trigger locks...
why not make it manditory to have a trigger lock on all firearms not in use by the owner at the moment...
maybe punishment if your weapon was left unlocked and was used in the commision of a crime could be something like a 10 year revokation of the right to bare arms and a huge fine?

its just a thought
ITS ALREADY ILLEGAL TO COMMIT CRIMES YDEFINITION. Now you would have the good guys essentially unarmed? Havent we learned that Gun free zones such as schools are the perfect target??? So if someone breaks into my house and rapes the mrs... you would have me unluck my gun from the safe, go to the other safe and get some ammo, then find the key for the trigger lock while this is happening? disarm yourself if you like but dont dare disarm me. MABE WE SHOULD BAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS? i GOT INTO AN accident with my car last summer, should we ban cars now? cmon. quit blaming objects and blame the people commiting the crimes.

no photo
Sat 01/05/13 06:06 AM
Edited by rambill79 on Sat 01/05/13 06:10 AM

The goal of gun control should be to keep the control of guns away from people who should not have it.

As one who advocates Peace on Earth, I believe the entire world should be a "gun free zone." While the goal may not seem all that realistic to some, There are nevertheless efforts under way already.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so…

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/eliminate-armed-guards-president-vice-president-and-their-families-and-establish-gun-free-zones/6RDGkxLK

Maybe we should all join the effort to keep guns away from the people who have demonstrated by incompetence, immaturity and/or malevolence that they should not even have access to them under any circumstances.

I once wrote a post somewhere about a coming global revolution where everyone around the world would scream as in a single thunderous voice, "ENOUGH!!"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IJhWVf4e4-s

…and the world would suddenly stop, and be still and quiet such that a dropping pin could be heard for miles, as all the Earth awaited our next order. That order would never be forthcoming, as the Peace on Earth we now enjoyed was all we ever wanted, and the order was already being obeyed without ever having been uttered.

The Peace Revolution starts here and now. Which side are you on?


whats next? knives? fire extinguishers? cars? clubs? weapons are a fact of life here in the real world. we all would like to live in utopia but thats not here. Eliminating weapons are not the answer, its not realistic. I can make a flame thrower out of a propane tank and a lighter and do a lot more damage than any of these shooters. gonna ban propane?

metalwing's photo
Sat 01/05/13 07:21 AM
The two sides of "gun logic".

Using England as an example of why guns should be banned is the ultimate straw man argument since England, and it's power over the citizen, was the example used to write the Constitution limiting the rights of government. The US was supposed to be different in this way from the rest of the world.

Blacks are 13% of the US population and have 53% of the nation's gun violence. Using the liberal logic exhibited here, banning blacks would be the most logical solution to the overall gun related violence statistics. The US gun crime rate would instantly drop to about Switzerland's.

Illegal aliens make up a lion's share of drug trafficking and also have a high percentage of gun violence (although the US government is hesitant to publish illegal alien crime statistics) but the problem shows itself clearly in the percentage of illegals now in federal prisons. Enforcement of illegal immigration laws on the books would have a major beneficial impact on gun crime but would offend potential future voters so "political correctness" comes to play.

Most policemen carry a gun at all times but never in their life use it against another human. The "buck fever" that occurs during an actual gun battle causes their aim to be poor and many can't hit the side of a barn.

Requiring returning military veterans to carry sidearms for ten years (or for as long as they agree) would put trained civilians on the streets which would supplement concealed carry and local police. Disallowing a trained veteran from using any weapon he wanted (such as what the press is calling an assault rifle) to defend his home and neighbors goes against every concept in the second amendment including "a well organized militia".

According to the news reports, no assault weapon was used at the school shooting in Connecticut. It was in the trunk of the car the whole time.