Now, lately I have noticed something: When I try to be nice, and accommodate someone, that gives them the green light to friend zone me. How do I avoid the friend zone?

dont be nice, ******* seem to like *****.

Don't be blah or bland! Or vague!...Stand out! Be interesting and intriguing! And full of surprises!...Women aren't looking for a puppy dog! Or a "shadow!"...There are plenty of "run-of-the-mill" people in the world. (Men and women.) Don't be someone who is easy to "forget" or "pass-by!"...It's not about being mean or a "bad boy.".. But being a total "people pleaser" with no personality of your own won't get you anywhere either!...We live in a competitive world. What do you have to offer besides just being "nice?" Develop your personality and become unique and special in your own right!.. And someone that a woman just can't "pass-by" or "live without!"...This is my "two cents" anyway!

"I've been nice to you. I've been accomodating. I've gone along with what you want...And now you owe me!"...This is how some "nice guys" come across...It feels like a "phony niceness" that comes with a lot of "strings" and hidden motives...It's like putting honey out as a "bait" to "trap" women into a "web!" Then getting mad if a woman doesn't take the "bait!"...Men who have something "going on" in their own right don't have to do any "baiting." They don't have to play "chameleon!"...This is the advice I gave to my sons.

Its good advice GreenEyes. My son is getting to that age soon enough and I think I am going to barrow it.

My way of avoiding the friendzone is being upfront about what you as a person are looking for. Theres nothing wrong in telling people what you want out of life. Its even a pretty common part of actually getting to know someone. Also from my experience its better to get that kinda talk out of the way cause most women I have dated know right away if they would have those kinds of feelings for a guy or not. By right away I mean within the first five minutes talking to them. Its best to not leave yourself in the dark about it.

I make sure to tell them the type of guy that I am. I am direct, honest, and blunt. I tend to keep to myself, but those who I do try to interact with seem to be more into the bad-boys

Are you just being friendly with these women, or making it known you're actually interested in more?

Very true! Expecting something in return for being nice makes it seem like you're only being nice just to get what you want. Not a good way to start off.

This is very true!

I agree...Best to be upfront and open right from the start...I think some guys develop a lot of fears and phobias about being placed in the "friend zone." I've seen so many "friend zone" threads on forums over the past couple of years...Maybe it's best to take a more sensible and realistic approach when it comes to dating..Take the attitude that the first dates are just a time for a man and woman to get to know each other as friends to see if there is a "mutual click" and "chemistry" as you mentioned in your post....If a man (or woman) is overridden with fears about being placed in the "friend zone" this can "screw things up" early-on. Don't you think? It's easy to pick-up "negative vibes" or insecurities and fears etc.

By putting the moves on her ASAP.

Here's what happens; She like you, but doesn't want to be too forward about it because she doesn't want you to think she's trashy. So, she waits for you to make a move on her. But, if you wait too long she starts thinking you either don't like her that way or are too chicken to make your move. There's a window of opportunity and if you miss it, it's very hard to get it back.

Being a gentlemen doesn't mean you cannot be sexual. Send her a clear single and let her know your desires before it's too late.

Maybe the women don't really want "bad boys" per se...They are just looking for a man who has a well-developed sense of "self" and "style" and personality...A man who can make them "think" and laugh and smile! Someone who is entertaining and full of surprises versus being "exactly the same" all the time and totally predictable! (Which can translate into boring!)...I'm not talking about being flaky or unreliable. Just "new" and different at times versus settling into "ruts" and"routines."..."Cutting loose" every so often just to keep things lively and "fresh" and interesting!..To me this is all part of having a personality! Sometimes we have to take a few risks and let our "wild and crazy" and playful side come out to be interesting to other people!...Or come-up with unique and novel ideas and theories about life and so on...It takes work to develop our personalities. And work to be interesting to other people!... This is how I feel anyway!...I was extremely shy and self-conscious when I was young and didn't have much of a personality. It was easy to "pass me by" or ignore me! I really didn't have much to "offer" to anyone...One day I finally "woke-up" and started to develop a unique personality of my very own over time.

I agree with you....I have been around men who play "waiting games." It can really push women away!....YUK! What would it be like to be married to a man like this? Would he expect his wife to "read his mind" and do all the planning and "leading" while he "sits back" and "waits" to be told "what to do" all the time?

The friend zone is unavoidable. They either want to be more than just friends or they don't...pretty simple really.

Humm the way I see it is some are meant to be lovers and some are meant to be friends only... Those I put in the friends zone has nothing to do with them personally just that their is no spark between the two to go any farther...

She will drop hints. Did you see the movie Hitch? In it he talks about dropping a woman off after a date. You walk her to the door and if she fiddles with her keys, she wants you to kiss her.

If she invites you in for a "coffee" or something she wants to have sex.

I agree...But some take it personally. (Especially if they've felt rejected over and over again by a series of women.)..From what I've observed the "friend zone" stuff becomes like a "club." And the guys firmly believe that "nice guys" always finish "last."...They feel they lose out because women go after "bad boys" not "nice guys."...They feel like the cards are stacked against them. And it becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy...It's like saying that women don't like men with red hair. And since I have red hair I'm destined to be a "loser" with women for the rest of my life...There's no hope unless a guy is willing to drop out of the "nice guy" and "friend zone" club...Membership in this club is all about being rejected and "passed over" time after time. And this is sad!

Some relationships are totally based on that kind of "give and take" or "trade." I had a friend who complained to me because her boyfriend would do her favors then always expect sex in return. I told her she should put a price on the favors (mowing the lawn etc.) and then put a price on having sex with him and get it out in the open. If he has done nothing for the trade, then just ask for the cash. LOL

She didn't like that idea. But that kind of relationship is just a proposition. It is not a real relationship in my opinion.

Why do you want to avoid the friend zone?

Because "friends" mean no sex? Or because "friends" take advantage of each other?

If you want to avoid the friend zone because it means no sex, you need to stop being so "accommodating."

Sometimes 'friends' can lead to sex, but most of the time, probably not. If you have that chemistry with each other, she will let you know... and real soon.

find'em,f***'em,and forget'em