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Topic: 50 reasons to be ashamed (and not a fan) of Jesus
CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Fri 07/06/12 06:46 PM
If one never even heard of Jesus Christ, how would they be punished for denying him as Lord and Savoir? see not everyone need Jesus to get to God ... No, they still need him. For it is his judgement that stands. But who hasn't even just "heard" of Jesus or Christianity as a general note? Very little to none. Jesus never taught anything about having Final Judgement...that is something his followers dreamed up Jesus taught and said that true worshippers worship the Father Yes, he did teach that we worship the Father. I never said anything different. We worship the father through Jesus Christ. And about the final judgement - Revelation 20:12 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ------- And here is Jesus speaking specifically of the final judgment that is to come. Matthew 25 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Cowboy these quotes are from followers not from Jesus....using Revelation as an example is deception since you know that Revelation was a dream not a quote from Jesus as I said Jesus taught nothing about him having final Judgement...he was to afraid of being stoned The verses from Matthew were from Jesus specifically. Matthew was a disciple that dreamed it up...the proof is that you will never find anything about Jesus teaching to the masses that he had final Judgement .... Matthew was a disciple, this much is true. But what are you talking about dreaming it up? This is a recorded incident with Jesus Christ. If you do not believe it or believe it happened, that is by all means your choice. But these are recorded words of something Jesus said.

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Fri 07/06/12 11:22 PM
POSTED BY COWBOY 1 I've never even said I only worship one or the other. POSTED BY COWBOY 1: God the father is the only God I worship. Cowboy...do the truth even exist in you my Son? have you ever consider that you might be a pathological liar? Yeah, I worship God the father through Jesus Christ. You can't worship God the father without first going through Jesus Christ. the Jews can Nobody can, Jesus is the only way to the Father. Moses would call you a liar I don't care what Moses would say. And why would he call me a liar? What's your scriptual evidence he believed differently? The only one that matters of what they said, is Jesus. And he said the following. John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Such a misunderstood phrase of beauty. Never says a word about worshipping Jesus. Just says that if you do as he did you find the father. Jesus is not God. There can be only one. and Funches is right. Moses would be agast at your (popular) interpretation. Moses found God to be. in a time when Jesus was not.

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Fri 07/06/12 11:24 PM
If one never even heard of Jesus Christ, how would they be punished for denying him as Lord and Savoir? see not everyone need Jesus to get to God ... No, they still need him. For it is his judgement that stands. But who hasn't even just "heard" of Jesus or Christianity as a general note? Very little to none. Jesus never taught anything about having Final Judgement...that is something his followers dreamed up Jesus taught and said that true worshippers worship the Father Yes, he did teach that we worship the Father. I never said anything different. We worship the father through Jesus Christ. And about the final judgement - Revelation 20:12 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ------- And here is Jesus speaking specifically of the final judgment that is to come. Matthew 25 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Cowboy these quotes are from followers not from Jesus....using Revelation as an example is deception since you know that Revelation was a dream not a quote from Jesus as I said Jesus taught nothing about him having final Judgement...he was to afraid of being stoned The verses from Matthew were from Jesus specifically. Matthew was a disciple that dreamed it up...the proof is that you will never find anything about Jesus teaching to the masses that he had final Judgement .... Matthew was a disciple, this much is true. But what are you talking about dreaming it up? This is a recorded incident with Jesus Christ. If you do not believe it or believe it happened, that is by all means your choice. But these are recorded words of something Jesus said. The words in question were written many years after the Advent of Christ. and are hearsay.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 05:59 AM
What in the world are you talking about again? Nobody said anything about even any form of punishment on a child to accept Jesus as lord and savior. That is totally up to the child, has nothing to do with the parent. What are you talking about? We were referring to disciplining a child for doing wrong and you go off with that? What in the world man? Cowboy..according to you there is a "Jesus Curse" that once you find out that Jesus exist that you at that point in time have the option of accepting Jesus to save your soul and not burn in the lake of fire since no Christian would dare dispute that babies have "Free Will" and therefore capable under the definition of "Free WIll" of making their own decisions, then it's either up to the baby to accept Jesus or the parents to force the child to accept Jesus either by beating them or through "Forced Baptism" ,if the baby dies before this takes place then then the soul of the baby is in question this is why babies do not automatically go to Heaven..it becomes the responsibility of the parents to teach their children right from wrong and clearly Christian parents believe that not accepting Jesus is wrong why would Christian parent beat their child for unintentionally breaking a material item or disobedience but don't beat them into the submission of accepting Jesus in order to save their souls but of course there is a loophole ...if you never let the baby hear or see anything about Jesus then the baby do not have to make a decision to accept Jesus and is therefore saved from the "Jesus Curse"

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:04 AM
POSTED BY COWBOY 1 I've never even said I only worship one or the other. POSTED BY COWBOY 1: God the father is the only God I worship. Cowboy...do the truth even exist in you my Son? have you ever consider that you might be a pathological liar? Yeah, I worship God the father through Jesus Christ. You can't worship God the father without first going through Jesus Christ. the Jews can Nobody can, Jesus is the only way to the Father. Moses would call you a liar I don't care what Moses would say. And why would he call me a liar? What's your scriptual evidence he believed differently? The only one that matters of what they said, is Jesus. And he said the following. John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Such a misunderstood phrase of beauty. Never says a word about worshipping Jesus. Just says that if you do as he did you find the father. Jesus is not God. There can be only one. and Funches is right. Moses would be agast at your (popular) interpretation. Moses found God to be. in a time when Jesus was not. There was no time when Jesus was not. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. And all things were made by him it says. Who made all things? Genesis 2:4 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, The lord God did of course. Who is this "lord" God you may ask? Isaiah 41:13 13 For I the Lord thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. Jesus Christ.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:08 AM
What in the world are you talking about again? Nobody said anything about even any form of punishment on a child to accept Jesus as lord and savior. That is totally up to the child, has nothing to do with the parent. What are you talking about? We were referring to disciplining a child for doing wrong and you go off with that? What in the world man? Cowboy..according to you there is a "Jesus Curse" that once you find out that Jesus exist that you at that point in time have the option of accepting Jesus to save your soul and not burn in the lake of fire since no Christian would dare dispute that babies have "Free Will" and therefore capable under the definition of "Free WIll" of making their own decisions, then it's either up to the baby to accept Jesus or the parents to force the child to accept Jesus either by beating them or through "Forced Baptism" ,if the baby dies before this takes place then then the soul of the baby is in question this is why babies do not automatically go to Heaven..it becomes the responsibility of the parents to teach their children right from wrong and clearly Christian parents believe that not accepting Jesus is wrong why would Christian parent beat their child for unintentionally breaking a material item or disobedience but don't beat them into the submission of accepting Jesus in order to save their souls but of course there is a loophole ...if you never let the baby hear or see anything about Jesus then the baby do not have to make a decision to accept Jesus and is therefore saved from the "Jesus Curse" since no Christian would dare dispute that babies have "Free Will" and therefore capable under the definition of "Free WIll" of making their own decisions, then it's either up to the baby to accept Jesus or the parents to force the child to accept Jesus either by beating them or through "Forced Baptism" ,if the baby dies before this takes place then then the soul of the baby is in question Ah, but babies do not have the mental capacity to make such a choice, thus they are inocent and will not be thrown into the lake of fire. Do you have a fetish with babies being thrown in the lake of fire or something? I've showed many times why babies will not be. And you return with wanting to throw more babies in the lake. the parents to force the child to accept Jesus either by beating And that is again absolutely incorrect. Do you also have a fetish with beating children? You've mentioned that a few times. It is not the parents job to force their children into accepting Jesus or not. Yes they are to teach the child about Jesus. But it solely up to the child to accept Jesus or not.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:10 AM Edited by CowboyGH on Sat 07/07/12 06:14 AM
If one never even heard of Jesus Christ, how would they be punished for denying him as Lord and Savoir? see not everyone need Jesus to get to God ... No, they still need him. For it is his judgement that stands. But who hasn't even just "heard" of Jesus or Christianity as a general note? Very little to none. Jesus never taught anything about having Final Judgement...that is something his followers dreamed up Jesus taught and said that true worshippers worship the Father Yes, he did teach that we worship the Father. I never said anything different. We worship the father through Jesus Christ. And about the final judgement - Revelation 20:12 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ------- And here is Jesus speaking specifically of the final judgment that is to come. Matthew 25 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Cowboy these quotes are from followers not from Jesus....using Revelation as an example is deception since you know that Revelation was a dream not a quote from Jesus as I said Jesus taught nothing about him having final Judgement...he was to afraid of being stoned The verses from Matthew were from Jesus specifically. Matthew was a disciple that dreamed it up...the proof is that you will never find anything about Jesus teaching to the masses that he had final Judgement .... Matthew was a disciple, this much is true. But what are you talking about dreaming it up? This is a recorded incident with Jesus Christ. If you do not believe it or believe it happened, that is by all means your choice. But these are recorded words of something Jesus said. The words in question were written many years after the Advent of Christ. and are hearsay. That point is moot. Anything said about something when it was not first hand experienced is hearsay. Even if there is a major amount of "evidence" anything said about something that was not first hand witnessed is hearsay. And no these words written in the bible are not hearsay. The amount of time it took them to write it down for one reason or other doesn't change a thing. These incidents were first hand experienced by the disciples therefore, they are not hearsay. The only way they could be hearsay is if someone else besides the disciple(s) wrote it down.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:13 AM
POSTED BY COWBOY 1 I've never even said I only worship one or the other. POSTED BY COWBOY 1: God the father is the only God I worship. Cowboy...do the truth even exist in you my Son? have you ever consider that you might be a pathological liar? Yeah, I worship God the father through Jesus Christ. You can't worship God the father without first going through Jesus Christ. the Jews can Nobody can, Jesus is the only way to the Father. Moses would call you a liar I don't care what Moses would say. And why would he call me a liar? What's your scriptual evidence he believed differently? The only one that matters of what they said, is Jesus. And he said the following. John 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Such a misunderstood phrase of beauty. Never says a word about worshipping Jesus. Just says that if you do as he did you find the father. Jesus is not God. There can be only one. and Funches is right. Moses would be agast at your (popular) interpretation. Moses found God to be. in a time when Jesus was not. Again, there was no time before Jesus. Jesus is our God, Jesus was Moses' God. Exodus 20:2 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 06:43 AM
Ah, but babies do not have the mental capacity to make such a choice, thus they are inocent and will not be thrown into the lake of fire. if babies do not have the mental capacity to make such a choice then under the Christian definition of "Free WIll"... babies do not have "Free Will" .. you can't have it both way....do babies have "Free WIll" or not? and if they do...then this is why an unsaved baby do not automatically go to Heaven

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 06:48 AM
Do you have a fetish with babies being thrown in the lake of fire or something? and do you have a fetish of sending babies to the Lake of Fire by preaching false gospel ....why do you think some parents use "Force Baptism"...they do so in order to save their baby soul you 've already claim that you are not a Christian and that you don't follow Christianity and that you do not follow any religious rituals ....but yet you want to preach to Christians false gospel that babies automatically go to Heaven

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:52 AM
Ah, but babies do not have the mental capacity to make such a choice, thus they are inocent and will not be thrown into the lake of fire. if babies do not have the mental capacity to make such a choice then under the Christian definition of "Free WIll"... babies do not have "Free Will" .. you can't have it both way....do babies have "Free WIll" or not? and if they do...then this is why an unsaved baby do not automatically go to Heaven Ah, but there is no "unsaved" babies. Babies can not make choices on things that are right or wrong. They do not have the mental capacity to do as such. They are saved by the grace of God, for they never had a chance to make a choice, to use that free will.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:54 AM
Do you have a fetish with babies being thrown in the lake of fire or something? and do you have a fetish of sending babies to the Lake of Fire by preaching false gospel ....why do you think some parents use "Force Baptism"...they do so in order to save their baby soul you 've already claim that you are not a Christian and that you don't follow Christianity and that you do not follow any religious rituals ....but yet you want to preach to Christians false gospel that babies automatically go to Heaven I have no idea why some parents "force" a baptism. That is not their job, not their responsibility, and sure as heck is not supported by any scriptures. I don't follow "Christianity". I follow my lord and savior, Jesus Christ. I've showed verses that support what I say about the babies being innocent and automatically going, now it's your turn to show what you believe if you wish to believe babies will be thrown into the lake of fire even though they never had a chance.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 06:58 AM
Do you have a fetish with babies being thrown in the lake of fire or something? and do you have a fetish of sending babies to the Lake of Fire by preaching false gospel ....why do you think some parents use "Force Baptism"...they do so in order to save their baby soul you 've already claim that you are not a Christian and that you don't follow Christianity and that you do not follow any religious rituals ....but yet you want to preach to Christians false gospel that babies automatically go to Heaven I have no idea why some parents "force" a baptism. That is not their job, not their responsibility, and sure as heck is not supported by any scriptures. I don't follow "Christianity". I follow my lord and savior, Jesus Christ. I've showed verses that support what I say about the babies being innocent and automatically going, now it's your turn to show what you believe if you wish to believe babies will be thrown into the lake of fire even though they never had a chance. James 4:17 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. ------------ Babies do not know right from wrong. Therefor do not sin. =========== Matthew 18:3 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. ------------ So with that, if it was how you were saying. We would all have to be like children and be tossed into the lake of fire if children/babies were tossed there. Why you always trying to belittle the Christian belief when you know not what you speak of?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 07:00 AM
Ah, but there is no "unsaved" babies. Babies can not make choices on things that are right or wrong. They do not have the mental capacity to do as such. They are saved by the grace of God, for they never had a chance to make a choice, to use that free will. God said that babies can become tainted by the parents ....are you working for Satan and trying to get him baby souls ...

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 07:04 AM Edited by CowboyGH on Sat 07/07/12 07:05 AM
Ah, but there is no "unsaved" babies. Babies can not make choices on things that are right or wrong. They do not have the mental capacity to do as such. They are saved by the grace of God, for they never had a chance to make a choice, to use that free will. God said that babies can become tainted by the parents ....are you working for Satan and trying to get him baby souls ... Please give this knowledge in scripture. Without showing the scripture, that is in fact hearsay as you tried to claim the scriptures to be. Now you know what hearsay is :)

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 07:09 AM
Again, there was no time before Jesus. Jesus is our God, Jesus was Moses' God. Exodus 20:2 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Cowboy...that passage was referring to Jehovah The Father not Jesus ...Jesus wasn't even a sperm when Exodus took place

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 07:11 AM
Again, there was no time before Jesus. Jesus is our God, Jesus was Moses' God. Exodus 20:2 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Cowboy...that passage was referring to Jehovah The Father not Jesus ...Jesus wasn't even a sperm when Exodus took place Jesus is the only LORD, God there is. So no, was referring to Jesus before we came in the flesh.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 07:12 AM
Again, there was no time before Jesus. Jesus is our God, Jesus was Moses' God. Exodus 20:2 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Cowboy...that passage was referring to Jehovah The Father not Jesus ...Jesus wasn't even a sperm when Exodus took place Jesus is the only LORD, God there is. So no, was referring to Jesus before we came in the flesh. Would have only said "God" if it would have been referring to the Father. But it in fact says LORD God, so it is referring to the son. That is why the two different terms are used throughout the bible all the way back to Genesis.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Sat 07/07/12 07:14 AM
Ah, but there is no "unsaved" babies. Babies can not make choices on things that are right or wrong. They do not have the mental capacity to do as such. They are saved by the grace of God, for they never had a chance to make a choice, to use that free will. God said that babies can become tainted by the parents ....are you working for Satan and trying to get him baby souls ... Please give this knowledge in scripture. Without showing the scripture, that is in fact hearsay as you tried to claim the scriptures to be. Now you know what hearsay is :) God drown the babies in the Great Flood because he accuse them of being tainted by their parents.... last time I tried to show you that scripture you claim that God didn't drown the babies but place them all on Noah's Ark...and that debate lasted for pages and pages until other christians had to intervene and tell you that you were mistaken .....

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Sat 07/07/12 07:17 AM
Ah, but there is no "unsaved" babies. Babies can not make choices on things that are right or wrong. They do not have the mental capacity to do as such. They are saved by the grace of God, for they never had a chance to make a choice, to use that free will. God said that babies can become tainted by the parents ....are you working for Satan and trying to get him baby souls ... Please give this knowledge in scripture. Without showing the scripture, that is in fact hearsay as you tried to claim the scriptures to be. Now you know what hearsay is :) God drown the babies in the Great Flood because he accuse them of being tainted by their parents.... last time I tried to show you that scripture you claim that God didn't drown the babies but place them all on Noah's Ark...and that debate lasted for pages and pages until other christians had to intervene and tell you that you were mistaken ..... Yes I was mentally having a rough day that day. I was incorrect about saying that, that's already been cleared up. Yes God flooded the world because it had become tainted, but that doesn't have anything to do specifically with the children and babies, as again they do not know right from wrong. They do not sin, therefore they are not tainted. Show a verse(s) that specifically says the children themselves are tained as you claim.